Audi S4 as my 2nd car?
- Thread starter PhillyBoy
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jediwebdude
New member
I'm a reliability nut. Acuras and Toyotas are usually what's in the garage (and formerly Nissans). In 2006, we bought our first German car: Audi A4 Avant (wagon) 2.0T. We had it until the 3rd kid came along, thus we had to trade it in for something bigger. I was so impressed with that car's interior integrity, the suspension, practicality, etc... So when the time came for me to get a mid-life crisis car, I compared the M3 and C63 AMG to the S4...the latter was my fav. I don't regret my S4 purchase at all.
Mid-Life Crisis by VisualUniverse, on Flickr
Mid-Life Crisis by VisualUniverse, on FlickrNo wonder older Saab turbo's are so cheap these days, lol.
IS-F is a potentially good choice but I hear you need to focus on one of the later models, like 2011 or newer. Toyota/Lexus made some significant suspension revisions that greatly improved the ride and handling compared to the initial models.
One other thing - You can't get the IS-F with a folding back seat. Nowhere to stuff the mountain bike. The Europeans usually give you this. I know, I know, I have the 4runner for that...
Saab was gone for a while. Someone is trying to get it going again a an eco-brand startup. Mine were ok (had an 80s 900 turbo, 80s 9000 turbo & 01 9-3). Pretty easy to maintain, pretty reliable, very utilitarian. Unfortunately for Saab, the hatchback craze in the USA was about 10 years too late. They were expensive & overshadowed in performance. For me, I used them as beaters before I really decided FWD is just wrong.
If you're looking for am old Saab, see how the owner treats it. Turbos like to be warmed up & cooled down. Due to their utility, many of them seem to look like they've been lived in by gypsies. The transmissions were sometimes not fully up to the task of all the power & torque of the turbo cars. They will last, just as long as they aren't abused.
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Also, you can't get it with a true manual transmission. That's a deal killer for many (although sadly, we're probably less than a decade or so away from the total demise of the clutch pedal). Is it possibly to completely disable all of the electrical nannies? I was thinking no, but a google search didn't confirm that. Anyway, not being able to turn off all the traction & braking aids would kill it for me.
VAG cars are relatively easy to work on, once you accept they make shit more complicated. A bit confusing at first but piece of cake once you dig in.
I drove a VW Passat for 11 years. Didn't have any major issues with it. Properly maintained, it was an excellent vehicle for 180k miles. Hated to see it go. Did almost every possible mod to it at one point or another.
The fiancé and I bought a 2010 A4 last year to replace it.
It's no S4, but I love the German engineering of these vehicles. Every car will have its issues. Just learn the vehicle and avoid the stealership.
I drove a VW Passat for 11 years. Didn't have any major issues with it. Properly maintained, it was an excellent vehicle for 180k miles. Hated to see it go. Did almost every possible mod to it at one point or another.
The fiancé and I bought a 2010 A4 last year to replace it.
It's no S4, but I love the German engineering of these vehicles. Every car will have its issues. Just learn the vehicle and avoid the stealership.
wnelax04sr5
New member
wait a couple years, you may be in luck
Lexus to Introduce Manual Transmission RC F & IS F? | Lexus Enthusiast
paddlenbike
Member
I don't think anyone here would argue that a BMW or Audi costs less to own than a Japanese car, but if you maintain them properly, they are more rewarding to drive than the Japanese counterpart. You can pretty much drive an Acura TSX or Honda Accord 150,000 miles pretty easily without having much of anything expensive crop up, while the Audi or BMW will likely have had some $2,500+ part go on the fritz.
As an example, the Honda suspension bushings easily last 200,000 miles. The E46 BMW suspension bushing last 80,000 miles. If you keep them changed, the Bimmer drives WAY nicer, but if you don't, the car's driving experience deteriorates. Which ties back to my main point, more maintenance, more reward with these cars.
As an example, the Honda suspension bushings easily last 200,000 miles. The E46 BMW suspension bushing last 80,000 miles. If you keep them changed, the Bimmer drives WAY nicer, but if you don't, the car's driving experience deteriorates. Which ties back to my main point, more maintenance, more reward with these cars.
T4R2014
Elite Member
Exactly. There is just a more rewarding experience with Euro cars but the trade-off is maintenance, which I would gladly pay. I have no intentions or expectations in saving money on my cars whether the are Japanese or European. You've got to pay to play.
T4R2014
Elite Member
This. Engines/transmissions/diffs are usually very solid and well-designed parts. What adds up are the rubber bushings and seals that go bad with time and much sooner than something Japanese. I find basic maintenance parts in Bimmer's and Volvo's to be very similar in cost to my 4Runner.
German cars aren't perfect. My coworkers 2007 S4 consumes a quart of oil every 1200 miles. I've also chuckled seeing a guy at work with a 2008+ A4 pull an oil bottle out of his trunk to fill his oil back up. I blame a lot of that on the alumisil blocks. No Japanese manufacturer uses that technology for good reason, they all stick with the tried and true iron sleeved aluminum block. My friend's new SL63 developed cylinder scoring and huge oil consumption issues at 5k miles, which he was able to lemon law because it sat at the dealer for 2 months while the white leather interior was stained and destroyed by the techs there.
My coworker's S4 has also developed loose timing chain tensioners. Since they are on the firewall side of the engine there's no room and the engine needs to come out of the car to fix them. He's expecting a $3k bill for that one. This car has 80k miles.
On the other hand my other friend's 05 M3 has been great, just the rear spherical bearings wore out which is expected, and his transmission shift linkage had to be replaced.
There are a few good German cars, but a lot of very expensive to fix ones.
My coworker's S4 has also developed loose timing chain tensioners. Since they are on the firewall side of the engine there's no room and the engine needs to come out of the car to fix them. He's expecting a $3k bill for that one. This car has 80k miles.
On the other hand my other friend's 05 M3 has been great, just the rear spherical bearings wore out which is expected, and his transmission shift linkage had to be replaced.
There are a few good German cars, but a lot of very expensive to fix ones.
rickashay
New member
Agreed. A true manual in the IS-F would make it much more attractive.
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