Automatic transmission / manual operation

[05SportV8]

I want to hear sound opinions and hopefully some hard data concerning using the AT in a MT fashion.

Let me clear it a bit:

I have always driven MT cars and I am used to use engine braking. I tend to slow down with plenty of room before a stop and never use to do hard braking.
I believe doing that increases safety and the life of brakes. So much that in 4 cars I have had I never had to replace brake pads. Engine breaking also gives me a feel of better control and before ABS was a common thing, it also avoided the risk of locking wheels. If you have a MT car you know that using engine braking combined with brakes gives you the best stoping power without losing control.

Now the 4R does not have the MT I wish it had. Still, I notice that the transmission shifter does not have the "common" lock of many AT. Does that mean I can shift the lever to induce engine braking as I would in a MT? Will I damage something if I do that constantly? I do notice when I downshift the AT, that it takes a couple os seconds before the trans engages the lower gear.

Does anybody treat the 4R like that?

If you say "don't do that" give me a good reason for that, not just saying that AT are not designed for that.

Thanks.

 

[Iowa4Runner]

You're probably going to get a lot of answers you don't want. "Brake pads are cheaper than transmissions" and "A 4Runner isn't meant to be driven like a sports car" are always popular. I doubt anyone here knows enough about this transmission to give you real answers. Unless one of Toyota's transmission design engineers posts here, you probably won't find what you're looking for.

 

[JB.]

Does anybody treat the 4R like that?

I'm very active with the transmission lever. I believe that the whole drive-by-wire setup protects the transmission from innapropriate shifts. I've gathered from other reading around the net that in order to meet fuel consumption standards, current transmissions are biased towards upshifting on coastdown. That makes them slower to respond smoothly and correctly to certain acceleration situations. I mostly drive around in 3rd and 4th. 2nd sees a lot of use too. I rarely use overdrive. I'd like to be able to lock a gear in, but I'm grateful for the easy to reach and use shifter.

 

[Atomic 4Runner]

Are you talking about using the transmission to assist with braking but using "automatic" for the acceleration?

Or are you wanting to shift manual for the "speeding up" as well as the "slowing down and stopping"?

 

[05SportV8]

Atomic,

Yes to your first question. I let the trans to do the work totally when accelerating. But I do downshift for stopping.

JB,

I believe the same. We do know that in some cases the computer senses your intention to brake and it downshifts. Plus the fact that the system does not respond immediately indicates that it is not forced, rather it finds the right moment to couple thus the lapse between downshifting and engaging.

Iowa,

That is exactly my intention. To find some hard data. Many people has told me the same you stated "Don't worry about the pads, rotors; pamper the transmission". Common sense dictates the same. Again, if the system is built intelligently and nothing gets hurt why not, right? That is why I want to know.

I don't believe that engine braking means driving like a sport car. It is more a safety practice and I learned driving using that technique. Basically is for my peace of mind to know I am not doing something that will cause damage.


Ok, let me put another observation an maybe somebody can explain this:

Many newer cars (ie Acura TSX) have the ability to let the whole AT do the work or they can up/down shift as they wish. In those cars when you "manually" shift, the computer finds the moment to do the shift. Is it not doing the same as the computer of the 4R? Are there other implications? Additionally, I have not found anywhere in the manual a note that says "do not downshift".

 

[mtnracer]

I really don't think using the tranny / engine as a brake is a problem.

I go on vacation in the mountains about twice a year and I am constantly shifting my auto-tranny on my 2003 4Runner. When you live in the mountains you don't have a choice or you'll be constantly burning through brake pads.

I do have to admit that I do not use the tranny for braking when I'm at home on flat land. I'd imagine though that this would strain the tranny less than constantly shifting in the mountains.

 

[khaug]

IMHO. you should manually downshift:

1. When you need to be able to rely on what lower gear you're in

2. When you need to count on engine braking for a long downgrade.


This advice from c. 15K miles of towing a 4,000# trailer with my '03 V-8.

 

[Northof49]

I use the different gears all the time in AT's.....that's why the shifter has positions other than "D."

There's too many hills around here not to use some engine braking.

 

[Iowa4Runner]

Atomic,

Iowa,

That is exactly my intention. To find some hard data. Many people has told me the same you stated "Don't worry about the pads, rotors; pamper the transmission". Common sense dictates the same. Again, if the system is built intelligently and nothing gets hurt why not, right? That is why I want to know.

I don't believe that engine braking means driving like a sport car. It is more a safety practice and I learned driving using that technique. Basically is for my peace of mind to know I am not doing something that will cause damage.

I think we're pretty much of the same mindset when it comes to downshifting. The statements I quoted don't reflect my opinion, I was just repeating the uninformed answers I've heard before.

I know the 4Runner's transmission control system has self destruct prevention features, but I don't know how well it protects against accelerated wear.

 

[Koz]

I too, like to use a manual trans to help slow down. I think that with an auto trans it may not be in its best interest to be used this way. I THINK the trans can take it but why would you put undue stress on a trans that is not designed to be used this way, it is not a manual trans. Also this will have a negative affect on your gas mileage. Brakes on the 4Runner can last a LONG time under normal conditions, and if maintained/inspected regularly, there is very little cost.

Koz

 

[Kmvreter]

I have always driven MT cars and I am used to use engine braking. I tend to slow down with plenty of room before a stop and never use to do hard braking.
I believe doing that increases safety and the life of brakes. So much that in 4 cars I have had I never had to replace brake pads. Engine breaking also gives me a feel of better control and before ABS was a common thing, it also avoided the risk of locking wheels. If you have a MT car you know that using engine braking combined with brakes gives you the best stoping power without losing control.

Now the 4R does not have the MT I wish it had. Still, I notice that the transmission shifter does not have the "common" lock of many AT. Does that mean I can shift the lever to induce engine braking as I would in a MT? Will I damage something if I do that constantly? I do notice when I downshift the AT, that it takes a couple os seconds before the trans engages the lower gear.

Does anybody treat the 4R like that?

Thanks.

Sounds like you are sensible in how you apply this. Haven't read it lately but the owner's manual even talks about specific engine braking conditions. I will engine brake as required for grades or trailering but I don't do it on flat land (and I am surprised with the brakepad life on my T4R.)

 

[05SportV8]

Thanks for the input.

We'll see how good this transmission is when years of use claim their toll.

Note for Toyota:

Please make the 4R with an optional MT transmission or MT mode while in AT. (while you are at it, make 4lo gear ratio higher and make a rear locker optional) Thanks so much.

A future buyer.

 

[Northof49]

Please make the 4R with an optional MT transmission or MT mode while in AT. (while you are at it, make 4lo gear ratio higher and make a rear locker optional) Thanks so much.

Any manual transmission mode for the AT will simply be a fancy way of shifting through the gates of your current AT.

Any automatic trans with the little side gate or steering wheel buttons for "manual control" is simply a different way of controling a traditional AT. Therefore, if you feel safe shifting around with those systems, you can do the same with the 4R's current trans.

I reeeeally don't see any problem with using some engine braking on a regular basis, as long as you're reasonable with it. Think of this - the 4R's tranny downshifts ITSELF on highway downgrade if you tap the brakes.....

 

[abin]

3 + D is what i can handle, not five speed.

i feel it gets more MPG when auto is used.