bad abs on 2004 4runner help!!

T

trishalk

New member
I have a 2004 4runner about 1 month ago i was on my way home doing 45 mph or so and the abs kicked in and locked the trucks brakes and i almost plowed into a wall,took it to the dealer and got it back a week later and replaced the abs computer to the tune of $1500,drove it home from the dealer and did not even make it 20 miles before the truck did the same thing almost causing me to hit another car,once again took back to the dealer where the 4runner has been now for 3weeks and the now have replaced the master cylinder and abs pump to the tune of $2400 just in parts!!!have not got the truck back yet they said there tech wants to drive it for a few day to make sure it is fixed, i do not feel safe driving it nowfor the fear it might happen again,has any one heard anything about this or have had the same problems,good thing i do have an extended service plan that is taking care of all the cost but i dont know if i even want this thing back,if you add up parts and labor there has been over 5 grand put just into the abs system!!!!if any one could give me some ideals on this situation it would be a big help...by the way the 4runner has 38 thousand miles one owner bought by me brand new!!! thx
 
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Thank God you have the extended warranty! Those are about the only parts that could cause those problems. I hope it's good for you now...

:cheers:
 
NOTIFY TOYOTA RIGHT AND THE NHTSA IMMEDIATELY!!!

If you lose control of the vehicle in this way, you are putting your life and everyone else's life on the line when operating this vehicle. I am glad you are safe but I wouldn't drive the vehicle until I knew for CERTAIN that it was safe to do so. What
 
In 1st my reply I didn't properly focus on the gravity of your T4R's problem.:bash: Shuly is 100% correct. Notify Toyota and NTSB as he suggested and keep copies for you so you know when and who you sent it too.

Even if the dealers repair worked 100% notify them anyways!
:cheers:
 
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Thanks to all for your commits,but what do you think would be resonable for toyota to do???just fix the bad parts then have the dealer test drive it for 100 miles or so(like they are doing as of this very week11.03.08) and just take it back and hope it does not happen again??? do you guys think it would be out of line when i talk to toyota to ask them if they would buy the 4runner back??? please give me any feedback you guys have,thx a bunch
 
trishalk said:
Thanks to all for your commits,but what do you think would be resonable for toyota to do???just fix the bad parts then have the dealer test drive it for 100 miles or so(like they are doing as of this very week11.03.08) and just take it back and hope it does not happen again??? do you guys think it would be out of line when i talk to toyota to ask them if they would buy the 4runner back??? please give me any feedback you guys have,thx a bunch
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I might mention the concept but don't "push-it". If this repair doesn't fix it then I would consider pushing for that pretty hard.

Unless there's some goofy electrical Gremlin in there the components they replaced should take care of it.

:cheers:
 
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trishalk said:
Thanks to all for your commits,but what do you think would be resonable for toyota to do???just fix the bad parts then have the dealer test drive it for 100 miles or so(like they are doing as of this very week11.03.08) and just take it back and hope it does not happen again??? do you guys think it would be out of line when i talk to toyota to ask them if they would buy the 4runner back??? please give me any feedback you guys have,thx a bunch
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Toyota is responsible for fixing the problem and providing a safe vehicle. The NHTSA doesn't get involved with fixing the problem only recording the incidents and launching investigations, which can lead to recalls. As far as what is reasonable, that would depend on your level of comfort. If the dealer attempts this fix and says it is fine and it happens again, then how comfortable are you driving this vehicle? Think about how serious this might be. What if you are on the 15 heading to Vegas at 70-80 mph? Are you satisfied this problem has been fixed or are you worried it might happen again?

It is about your comfort level. You should feel safe when operating your own vehicle. If you haven't contacted Toyota, do so ASAP! I believe you will find that Toyota doesn't want a safety issue like this to go unresolved. Safety should always be any companies 1st priority and sales/production should be second. If something can't be done safely it should not be done at all. Hoping it won't happen again and being certain it won't happen again are two different things. I would not necessarily ask for Toyota to buy back the vehicle but would make sure you are speaking with management and get some assurance from the big wigs that the matter has been resolved. They could replace the ECU and all things brake related, including any sensors that might be causing the problem. If you replace everything then it could be certain it would not happen again right? If it was a brand new vehicle this may fall under lemon laws. But the best thing to do is contact Toyota and make sure you contact the NHTSA. If you end up with someone at Toyota that doesn't give a d@mn, the NHTSA will be sure that at least someone looks into the matter. Heck, the NHTSA might already have a similar complaint logged. Start stirring the pot, it is going to make some people upset but your life and the lives of others on the road depend on it.
 
Just a update on what is going on with my 4runner and also to get some advice on what you guys think of the situation,as of 11-06-08 the dealer has told me that they do not know what is wrong with my 4runner they have looked at everthing and replaced alot of items but still the problem has not been fixed,what would be fair or what should i expect toyota or the dealer to do???they way i see it this could go on for some time till they figure what is wrong with the truck and even then i dont know if i even want it back!!!what would you folks do in this situation and what would you expect toyota to do,any help would be great please remember the dealer has now had the truck over a month and still no fix!!!!thx
 
trishalk said:
Just a update on what is going on with my 4runner and also to get some advice on what you guys think of the situation,as of 11-06-08 the dealer has told me that they do not know what is wrong with my 4runner they have looked at everthing and replaced alot of items but still the problem has not been fixed,what would be fair or what should i expect toyota or the dealer to do???they way i see it this could go on for some time till they figure what is wrong with the truck and even then i dont know if i even want it back!!!what would you folks do in this situation and what would you expect toyota to do,any help would be great please remember the dealer has now had the truck over a month and still no fix!!!!thx
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As I have said before. CONTACT TOYOTA AND THE NHTSA IMMEDIATELY!!! Have you done this? It sounds like you are letting the dealer jerk you around.

If you really don't know what to do and you don't want to contact the NHTSA and Toyota corp, then might I suggest speaking with a lawyer regarding the matter? I don't mean to be litigious but at some point, if you are not willing or do not feel that you have the strength of will to pursue the problem then a lawyer can do this for you. If it were me this wouldn't have gone on nearly this long. The NHTSA they may also have suggestions for pursuing this matter. Beyond providing the information on whom to contact, there isn't much else I can do. Now if you find someone on this board that is a practicing lawyer and willing to give you a consult, then by all means they can recommend detailed/specific courses of action beyond contacting the appropriate people and agencies.

Think about this, if the dealer cannot find the problem and it has been a month
 
Have they replaced all of the sensors?

I would make sure of that.

Also, I was once low on brake fluid. Which caused the braking system to go haywire, and anything related to brakes didn't work right. Like VSC, ABS, ATRAC, speed sensor A. I would also look into putting a switch in to turn off all of that.

Think of it this way, if you turn on the switch and it STILL does it than something is wrong, but if it doesn't then that rules out a few things.
 
Here is some info from the NHTSA site:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

==============================
What will NHTSA do with my complaint?

Your complaint information will be entered into NHTSA's vehicle owner's complaint database and used with other complaints to determine if a safety-related defect trend exists.

* If a safety-related defect exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment, the manufacturer must fix it at no cost to the owner. Your complaint is the first step in the process.
* Government engineers analyze the problem. If warranted, the manufacturer is asked to conduct a recall. If the manufacturer does not initiate a recall, the government can order the manufacturer to initiate a recall.
* We do not have to receive a specific number of complaints before we look into a problem. We gather all available information on a problem. Your complaint is important to us.
* While you may or may not be contacted by a NHTSA investigator to clarify the information submitted, all reports are reviewed and analyzed for potential defects trends.
==============================
 
Ok here is the most recent update,first thing is i am trying very hard to work with the dealer for the fact i think that what be the best thing to due to have them wanting to work with me and help get the 4runner fixed,i have not said the words lemon law yet.what they have done as of this friday is i got a phone call from the dealer telling me a toyota engineer was coming in to look at my truck and take it for a ride,so i left work early and got there as they were out on a test drive when the toyota guy and teck got back i did talk to the engineer and what he said was this,they have not seen this problem before and they never had a problem they could not fix,he also said all computers and sensors had beed replaced that deal with the brakes and the only thing left was the wiring harness that was not replaced so he said that would be the next thing theywould more then likley replace,and this would hopefully fix the problem,when i asked him how much longer this would take he said around a week,it seems to me that toyota does not mind spending thousand of dollars to try to fix a problem that they really have know idea what the problem is ,just as a side note the dealer has been great and given me a free loaner for the past five weeks at no cost to me but i just want to get this over and done with either get it fixed and be sure that it is fixed or have toyota buy it back ,tell me what you guys think and what you would do and not just say call a lawyer sometimes that just makes the people you are dealing with not want to work with you at all,i want to work this out the best way possible, thx so much....
 
At this point I'd be somewhat optimistic. There's really nothing left after the wiring harness.

The good news is that the vehicle must be misbehaving with enough frequency that they can reproduce the problem even after the install of the new parts.

As difficult as this is for you it's dveloping into a good story and two thumbs up for the dealer and Toyota.

There's a few switches, a pedal effort sensor, the ABS computer and master brake conrtoller assembly. It sounds like all of those items have been addressed and either replaced or given a clean bill of health. The only thing left is the wiring harness(es). If the harness wasn't assembled correctly or it was damaged at install that would explain what you're going through. If the harness was damaged or installed wrong it make have taken a few years for a wire to rub enough to break, short or jump to another wire and that explains how you made it to 38k.

For the record FWIW, the chances of a bad harness or harness install are '1 in a million' and I do believe the engineer when he says he hasn't seen it. I also think pursuing the harness is the correct next step.

Good luck and keep us posted.

:cheers:
 
Here is what I would do:

Contact your local congressional office by letter detailing the issue. Send it return receipt requested. Follow up with a phone call in a few days. Often an office will know someone in Congress who deals with these issues.

Call NTSB and get a name and a number of an office that receives complaints about products shipped into this country which travel on our roads.

Contact Parker Standbury in Los Angeles. They offer legal services pre paid about $29.00 bucks a month. They are professional and will contact by letter those involved. Amazing what a letter from an attorney will do some times.

Your auto insurance policy should be able to be used in this case as essentially your car is not driveable.

Good luck. oh they should be data on this problem through a federal agency. It may require some foot work but will be well worth it in my opinion to find out the cause of the problem and how to resolve it.
 
The dealer did say they are able to make the truck have the abs problem that a brought it to them for when they take it out on a test drive and make right hand turns the abs kicks in and the truck locks up like it did on me but i never noticed that it did it on just right hand turns,so that is how they know that with all the parts the dealer has put on when they take it on a test drive and make that turn the abs kicks in,my big concern here is first how long do i let the dealer keep the truck and were does that leave me when i get it back. that the problem has for sure been fixed,it has been five weeks and over 5 grand in parts and they still have not fixed and the big question is what if they can not fix it!!!!what to do at that point how long should i let this go on with the dealer another few weeks or what all this time my truck gets moved around the dealer with who knows how maney different tecks are out beating on the truck not to mention the fact its sitting outside getting rained on and what not,this was my baby it was kept in the garage and waxed 3 times a year, now just being tossed around on the dealer back lot ...can anyone feel my pain...thx
 
I agree. Do what others have told you.

Though Toyota might be trying their best, you've been rigless for 5 weeks. unacceptable.

NHTSA MUST be notified of this problem.

The lawyer part is up to you.
 
I have been refraining from replying...for the following reason; you continue to ask us what to do and I know myself and others have provided you with options. We cannot fix your problem and ultimately it is up to you on what you personally find acceptable. I don't mean to insult or offend or belittle...etc. I just mean to state you have to figure out for yourself how much BS you are willing to put up with. That being said:

Personally I would take comfort in knowing that the dealer has been able to reproduce the problem. That can be one of the most difficult things to do. Being able to reliably reproduce and issue at least makes certain they can retest for the problem. It also ensures that the problem has most likely been fixed when no longer reproducible. Now, I would still have them replace the wiring harness and everything else brake related. Another thing to consider if they haven't already is the VSC system. I am not sure how much of this is tied to which systems they have and have not replaced. But the computer senses when you are turning and decides if the vehicle is not going the direction you are pointing it, it attempts to brake the wheels and cut power to the engine. This system does use the brakes. Not necessarily the cause, but something to consider.

Now have you contacted Toyota Corporate? I mean they have had your rig for 5 weeks man!!!! Are you in love with your rental Camry or something? :) Really, if they did this to me I would ask that they make 1.25 months of car payments.

Also you really need to contact the NHTSA. These people need to be aware of the incident. I already provided a link in a past post. You can tell them what happened, what the dealer has done thus far and if it was fixed or not. Imagine if you don't file this complaint and someone else gets hurt because there is a similar problem. Seriously...CONTACT THEM!

Best of luck and keep us all updated to the final solution!
Schuyler
 
Just an update for you guys,first off when dealing with a dealer it was really bad advice to give someone to call a lawyer,i think i got alot farther with just being nice and understanding so you guys should all think about that!!!!well it ended up being a steering wheel postion sensor,with that installed the truck now drives great will pick it up at the dealer monday,thanks for all the great advice...????? shuly
 
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