Battery problem with 2014 LTD

[jayw]

Hi All,

10/22 I replaced my 3.5 yr old flooded cell 24f battery from Costco ($85) with a new one ($135). Well since day one it never "sounded" as strong as the old one when cranking. Three days ago it had a bit of struggle starting, which I just kind of dismissed. Next day, I got the "click click click" when trying to start. Accessories work, but won't crank....

So, I put it on my Schumacher charger. Showed 11.4 V. Guess it's enough to trip the solenoid but not enough to spin the motor, hence the "click click click".

I charged it for several hrs on 10A charge. It never got past 75% but was putting out 12.4V not under load (BTW, the battery has manufactured sticker date of 10/22, making this battery less than 3 months old...) Of course, this charger isn't mechanic's grade so who knows...

Anyway, I used a multimeter (disclaimer: I am a novice with electronics) and did the parasitic draw test (per ericthecarguy on YT). I disconnected the battery NEG overnight first before doing this test, and now I see it only pulling 10mA. Overnight, the battery seems to have held its charge and shows 12.4V on the multimeter.

I know I can just go back to Costco and get a refund, and I am sure I will do that but I am wondering:

A) Have I overlooked anything or done something wrong here? Could there still be an issue with my 2014 4R LTD? Or is Costco's battery to blame?

B) I think I am just gonna go to Batteries Plus with Costco's refund $ and get the Duracell (East Penn) 24f AGM with 710CCA for $240-20%=$200+tax (and presumably core charge since Costco took my last battery).

I'd appreciate any thoughts. The 4R has 66k miles, we live in northern IL and it's been very cold but it's kept in our heated garage which is 50 degrees all winter.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[rdruss]

Go buy a Toyota battery and you will have a good one. I just bought a new one for my '03 V8 after 7.5 years on old one, and it was still good, but with the cold wave coming I didn't want to chance it. I have used Toyota batteries for 15 years now and NO complaints. $160 out the door for a 27F.

 

[fkheath]

Hi All,

10/22 I replaced my 3.5 yr old flooded cell 24f battery from Costco ($85) with a new one ($135). Well since day one it never "sounded" as strong as the old one when cranking. Three days ago it had a bit of struggle starting, which I just kind of dismissed. Next day, I got the "click click click" when trying to start. Accessories work, but won't crank....

So, I put it on my Schumacher charger. Showed 11.4 V. Guess it's enough to trip the solenoid but not enough to spin the motor, hence the "click click click".

I charged it for several hrs on 10A charge. It never got past 75% but was putting out 12.4V not under load (BTW, the battery has manufactured sticker date of 10/22, making this battery less than 3 months old...) Of course, this charger isn't mechanic's grade so who knows...

Anyway, I used a multimeter (disclaimer: I am a novice with electronics) and did the parasitic draw test (per ericthecarguy on YT). I disconnected the battery NEG overnight first before doing this test, and now I see it only pulling 10mA. Overnight, the battery seems to have held its charge and shows 12.4V on the multimeter.

I know I can just go back to Costco and get a refund, and I am sure I will do that but I am wondering:

A) Have I overlooked anything or done something wrong here? Could there still be an issue with my 2014 4R LTD? Or is Costco's battery to blame?

B) I think I am just gonna go to Batteries Plus with Costco's refund $ and get the Duracell (East Penn) 24f AGM with 710CCA for $240-20%=$200+tax (and presumably core charge since Costco took my last battery).

I'd appreciate any thoughts. The 4R has 66k miles, we live in northern IL and it's been very cold but it's kept in our heated garage which is 50 degrees all winter.

Thanks for any feedback.

Nowhere do you mention the battery voltage with the engine running. It should be about 14 volts indicating the alternator is working right. Better yet, turn on the headlights for your voltage tests to give the system a load. If you voltage with engine running is less than 14, suspect a bad alternator.

 

[jayw]

Thanks, I checked this AM and it didn't seem to have lost any volts overnight. 12.4

So I started the engine and turned on all the accessories and it was 13.95, but slowly dropped to about 13.5 +/- after 10 minutes running. Thinking alternator I called my mechanic and talked to him. He said that was w/in normal operating range. Also note this is all with the 4R idling. I shut it off and checked volts again and it had dropped down to 12.2. He felt the battery wasn't taking a charge but warned you need to drive a while to recharge.

He also said he doubted alternator and to return the battery but NOT to buy another one from Costco. He said in the last 2 years he has seen multiple problems with Costco batteries and they are no longer good despite carrying the Interstate name.

My guess is, like many products, Costco has a spec battery built by Interstate just for them, that is price-point. Costco is known for doing this with other items they carry from what I understand.

I think I am just going to go get an AGM battery somewhere and get my $135+ back.

 

[seatia]

Don't diss Walmart batteries. I've been using them for several years with no problems. They have different price points which supposedly are just for warrantee purposes. They are every where, so that weighed on my decision for exchange if needed.

BTW, make sure your battery connection are super clean, even if they look clean, clean them. That can cause your specific problem of not charging properly.
I always clean them with a watery baking soda solution and then use copper antiseize on the posts. At least use a liberal amount of grease to prevent oxidation.

 

[Mark4runnar]

can't go wrong with an OEM
Vehicle Battery
Part Number: 0054421181320

 

[Dianna]

I'm curious why you swapped out your original battery, was it bad? I'm still going strong on my original battery from my 4R that was purchased 1/14. My Dad still has his OEM 2/15 battery and we just had brutal cold here and both started right up. That OEM battery is made by Panasonic and unfortunately, you can't buy them. I know that doesn't help answer your question, but was just curious

 

[jayw]

To answer questions and offer more info:

I called the nearest Toyota dealer, they have a battery that's $150 and has a 2 yr replacement warranty plus some prorated years. Maybe I should have bit but I didn't, I understand they use Johnson Controls which also make the Everstart line for Walmart. And the Auto Zone Duralast line too. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, just saying. JC makes tons of battery lines.

My original battery didn't die as I recall, I replaced it proactively coming up on 5 years. The replacement died after ~3 1/2 years so not great. That was a Costco. Maybe I am rough on batteries? God bless you for your battery lasting so long, it surprises me. Then again, I cannot say what might have happened had I kept the original. Maybe it would still be OK?

Anyway, today I spent some time looking around and learned this:

24f AGM is an unusual battery, only a few Batteries Plus in the northern IL/ Chicago area had 1 or 2 on hand. Same with Advance Auto. I consider that an issue for replacement as Batteries Plus told me if it ever needs replacement there could be a wait. Plus they only had them with manufacture dates of 8/22 and I would prefer a fresher battery. Opted out of the AGM.

At Costco getting my money back the manager dissuaded me from AGM, saying the battery could possibly damage circuitry. I don't know how true the bit about AGM is. He told me he was a service manager for Toyota and he wouldn't use one. He was also genuinely shocked the battery was bad, he told me they sell tons of batteries and they get very few complaints/returns. He showed me the battery return area and it was empty. He said today they'd sold dozens of batteries alone. Not saying that lends credence to anything, but again just saying.

The upshot is, he talked me into trying another Costco battery. I know, it may end up being a "shame on me" moment and I may regret it. But he said any issues in the next 3 years and bring it back for a full refund. No one else offers a refund that I know of.

So I guess I am kicking the can down the road on this one, we'll see how it shakes out. Thanks to all for the feedback.

Last thought: tomorrow I am having everything professionally tested with my oil change.

 

[Jeremy556]

At Costco getting my money back the manager dissuaded me from AGM, saying the battery could possibly damage circuitry. I don't know how true the bit about AGM is.

That's hogwash. The only issue with AGMs is the 4runner alternator is not setup to charge them properly. It won't cause any actual problem, and if you want to correct it, you can drop a diode in at the fuse box to trick the alternator into putting out another volt to properly charge.

That being said, unless you are needing deep cycle or something, there probably isn't a compelling reason to spend more on an AGM.

 

[Rack]

OK the guy from Costco sales tires and batteries so he will tell you what you want to hear.
You are correct, Costco like Home depot, Best buy and all the big box stores write there own spec for products like batteries, TV, laptops and refrigerators.
As everyone on this forum will agree the original Panasonic will go 7 to 9 years.
When I felt it was time the Panasonic got replace with a 34R Odyssey. At 8 years the Panasonic was still going strong but I also have issues with a battery that old. As mentioned above the alternator in your 4R won't top off an AGM battery without a mod. Or Once a week put it on a AGM battery charger like a Ctec 7002 or some thing comparable. The cost of a AGM battery is twice what you will pay for a flooded cell but if I lived where you live I would go with the AGM.
I would not want to be jump starting my car in weather like I saw on the weather channel last week in your area.

 

[jayw]

Thanks for replies. I actually feel better about passing on the AGM as I'd prefer not to do electrical mods to the 4R at this time and was unaware of the need.

It was cold here last week but our garage is heated and I keep it about 50 deg all winter so battery chill isn't an issue mostly. The gas company will love me this month. But if it were outside all night, different story.

I was at an Xmas party last night where my neighbor told me his friend (who owns a large custom shop in Chicago) said the same thing about the Costco batteries.

So like I said, I may regret this later, but it buys me some time. Hopefully more than 2 months. I wouldn't have taken another Costco battery if not for the option to return for a full refund. I still may just do that at some point when I have time. And I think I would go to the Toyota one from the dealer.

 

[ArthurKotb]

East Penn makes Duracell and East Penn is a quality company with great products. I use their batteries for my boat's trolling motor and ignition since 1994 and the wife's '99 Sienna since 11/2019. I replaced my 2003 OEM Panasonic (which I still have and holds 75% charge) with a Toyota battery in 11/2015 and it's still going strong. We had a couple days of -6°F, T4R is parked outside, and it started right up.

If you're unsure, you can't go wrong with either the Toyota or Duracell battery. NAPA sells East Penn batteries too.

 

[jayw]

I agree about the Duracell / East Penn, we too have one in our boat. I wanted the Duracell 24F AGM from Batteries Plus but availability was scarce and that scared me off. Glad it did since I don't want AGM as it turns out, based on above.

Got the oil changed today and my mechanic said the alternator is in perfect condition. He said not to expect more than 2 yrs from the Costco battery so I will likely go swap it and head to the dealer at some point down the road. For now, this one is working and I hope it stays that way.

I, for one, if I hit 5 yrs on a battery and just replace it. Right or wrong as that may be. I may buy one of those battery jump bricks from AMZN or something, just for when we travel etc. anyway.

 

[ArthurKotb]

AGMs, from my experience, are deep cycle batteries. They are used for things like RVs, travel trailers, marine use, etc. They are meant to be discharged and charged many times over their life. They will normally have a constant drain on them to provide power for lighting, electric motors, fans and pumps. They are lead-acid but that is contained in the absorbed glass mat (AGM). You can break a corner off an AGM and the acid will stay in the mat, not leak out.

Ignition batteries provide high amperage for short bursts, like car ignition, when it has to turn the flywheel and crank the motor. Deep cycling an ignition battery a lot will shorten its life, while deep cycle batteries take it in stride, but don't provide enough amperage for normal ignition usage. Ignition batteries should always be kept fully charged or they will quickly sulfate.

Marine batteries normally have a 1 year warranty. People let their boats site idle all winter so the ignition battery suffers. I used to replace my boat's ignition battery almost every year. Now I keep the onboard charger plugged into a timer. Every day it kicks on for 20 minutes in the morning and again in the afternoon. I figure it simulates driving to/from work. The Interstate I have in there now was bought in 3/19 and has lots of life left in it.

At Harbor Freight they have an inexpensive battery load tester. It has a large resistor to put a load on the battery to see how strong it is. If you think you have a weak battery this tool will definitely put it to the test. I have this one.
Access to this page has been denied

 

[Dynamo]

That's hogwash. The only issue with AGMs is the 4runner alternator is not setup to charge them properly. It won't cause any actual problem, and if you want to correct it, you can drop a diode in at the fuse box to trick the alternator into putting out another volt to properly charge.

That being said, unless you are needing deep cycle or something, there probably isn't a compelling reason to spend more on an AGM.

How about to avoid leaks? The pic below is what happened to my previous FJ Cruiser after a flooded lead acid battery leaked. There was no evidence that I could see from above that it was leaking. I just happened to notice a rusty looking drip spot on my garage floor and eventually realized it was an acid stain. After removing the battery that's what I found. That was the first time I've ever had a battery leak like that but it was enough to cause me to switch to AGM batteries.

 

[Jeremy556]

How about to avoid leaks?[/IMG]

Fair point. There should be a tray to contain that stuff.

I run an Odyssey AGM and will replace it with another when it dies. I keep expecting it to do so soon, as I ran my 4runner total loss for a long time when my alternator went out a couple years ago and drained it very low. Still chugging along, though.

 

[Dynamo]

Fair point. There should be a tray to contain that stuff.

I run an Odyssey AGM and will replace it with another when it dies. I keep expecting it to do so soon, as I ran my 4runner total loss for a long time when my alternator went out a couple years ago and drained it very low. Still chugging along, though.

The OEM plastic tray was there, I took that pic after I removed everything and cleaned it all up.