Bent lower control arm?

[4runneroffroad2020]

Hey guys,
I have been going on different trails since i got my 2020 T4R TRDOF during winter months...

and a couple of days ago I put my new A/T tires on... and noticed the car kept pulling to the right.

I have gone to several dealers for alignments, and no one could figure out what was wrong.

The last dealer said that they looked at the side and even though all the wheels are within spec, when they looked at the side they noticed that the Front right wheel had been pushed back by 1/2 inch back hence why it keeps pulling right.

The dealer said they can try replacing the Lower control arm followed by another alignment to see if that will help ($1100 cdn) ... if not. change other suspension parts to see if it helps?

Before i start throwing money at it blindly...would anyone know if the lower control arm would solve it?

The car has NOT been in an accident, nor do i recall hitting anything hard, but i must've hit something on the trails for it to have bent something??


I guess i thought this car was a tank and I was being stupid,:noidea::noidea::redbrick::redbrick::redbrick::redbrick::redbrick::redbrick: but Just want to know what it could be that allows the car to stay within spec for alignments, but as soon as it's on the ground it causes a pull. ANd would cause the wheel to be shifted back 1/2 inch... Would the LOWER control arm replacement solve it?

any help would be appreciated.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Do you have any alignment print-outs? Maybe we can see if we can parse anything from the numbers? Or pictures? Usually if something is that bent you should be able to see it in the numbers to a degree.

Also have they cross rotated the tires to rule out that the tires just have a pull? We've seen a few of the heavier off-road tires cause pulls in vehicles that get exacerbated by the ruts & crowns in the roads out here.

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

Do you have any alignment print-outs? Maybe we can see if we can parse anything from the numbers? Or pictures? Usually if something is that bent you should be able to see it in the numbers to a degree.

Also have they cross rotated the tires to rule out that the tires just have a pull? We've seen a few of the heavier off-road tires cause pulls in vehicles that get exacerbated by the ruts & crowns in the roads out here.

Yes i suggested the front tires left to right and right to left swap. It had the same effect.... instead of going to the left (had it been a bad tire) would still go to the right.

one of the dealers did give me a print out..............i will post it....

also
the last dealer that suggested the lower arm replacement said that as soon as the car would be lowered to the ground it would go into the red from the numbers being green..........
so as soon as load is exerted onto the suspension it throws it off.

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

Do you have any alignment print-outs? Maybe we can see if we can parse anything from the numbers? Or pictures? Usually if something is that bent you should be able to see it in the numbers to a degree.

Also have they cross rotated the tires to rule out that the tires just have a pull? We've seen a few of the heavier off-road tires cause pulls in vehicles that get exacerbated by the ruts & crowns in the roads out here.

https://i.postimg.cc/Ghb5m9tW/4runner-results.jpg

The section marked with red was after the second alignment. Everything is within specs, tire swap and still pulls right.

 

[MyanRagahis]

What kind of tires did you get? I had ST Maxx's in the past and that caused a tire pull to the right. As soon as I got Ridge Grapplers the pull was gone.

Also, why are they not showing your caster results?

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

What kind of tires did you get? I had ST Maxx's in the past and that caused a tire pull to the right. As soon as I got Ridge Grapplers the pull was gone.

Also, why are they not showing your caster results?

Cooper discoverer at3 4s

 

[tm965]

i was experiencing something similar + steering vibrations that i thought was due to imbalanced tires, but it turned out my stock LCA bushings where shot within 30k miles for whatever reason. i also was constantly having to do alignments as the smallest obstacles, potholes, etc. would knock it slightly out of alignment.

installed some dirt king LCAs and all of my issues disappeared

 

[DougR]

... they noticed that the Front right wheel had been pushed back by 1/2 inch back

I would make several comparison measurements from the frame to locations on the lower control arms, and compare passenger side to drivers side. This involves crawling under the vehicle or taking it to a collision repair shop. I'm surprised the dealer didn't do that, or they did and for some reason you doubt it. Exactly what did the dealer measure?

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

I would make several comparison measurements from the frame to locations on the lower control arms, and compare passenger side to drivers side. This involves crawling under the vehicle or taking it to a collision repair shop. I'm surprised the dealer didn't do that, or they did and for some reason you doubt it. Exactly what did the dealer measure?

Im at the second dealership that did an alignment and see if he will recommend a Lca as well.

He said the wheel on the right side was 1/2 inch back

Compared to the left....

So im guessing from edge of the wheel to the wheel well?

 

[srsrogerissrs]

I would make sure the spindle is not bent either. You hardly hear about anything with the actual LCA being bent/damaged/etc.. usually it's the balljoint/cams/bushings etc.

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

i was experiencing something similar + steering vibrations that i thought was due to imbalanced tires, but it turned out my stock LCA bushings where shot within 30k miles for whatever reason. i also was constantly having to do alignments as the smallest obstacles, potholes, etc. would knock it slightly out of alignment.

installed some dirt king LCAs and all of my issues disappeared

Well i have about 36k km roughly 21k miles...

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

I would make sure the spindle is not bent either. You hardly hear about anything with the actual LCA being bent/damaged/etc.. usually it's the balljoint/cams/bushings etc.

As long as it's not frame or subframe and can be fixed with LCa im okay.

But i DID not hit anything that bad...

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

Im at the second dealership that did an alignment and see if he will recommend a Lca as well.

He said the wheel on the right side was 1/2 inch back

Compared to the left....

So im guessing from edge of the wheel to the wheel well?

Update...


So the second dealer said there's nothing wrong with your truck, it's the calipers that are sticking... They said to bring it back next week they'll work on it then...
Mind you this is the same dealer that did the "BRAKE MAINTENANCE" on the truck...

Either one dealer knows what they're doing, and the other doesn't

or ones trying to take me for a ride!! LOL

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Update...


So the second dealer said there's nothing wrong with your truck, it's the calipers that are sticking... They said to bring it back next week they'll work on it then...
Mind you this is the same dealer that did the "BRAKE MAINTENANCE" on the truck...

Either one dealer knows what they're doing, and the other doesn't

or ones trying to take me for a ride!! LOL

Maybe someday you will learn to not go to dealerships and maybe even learn to do the work yourself?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

That alignment readout is a bit lacking, I would have liked to see at least Caster if not SAI. I wonder if that's just one of those alignment "quick checkers" we have a couple in lube bay and honestly aside from getting a rough idea of Toe, they tend to be a bit off on camber and caster. The wheel being set back a half inch made me wonder what the caster settings were as you can move the wheel around a bit by playing with that (it's one of the reasons a lot of people will opt for 4° of Caster when doing lifts.)

Update...


So the second dealer said there's nothing wrong with your truck, it's the calipers that are sticking... They said to bring it back next week they'll work on it then...
Mind you this is the same dealer that did the "BRAKE MAINTENANCE" on the truck...

Either one dealer knows what they're doing, and the other doesn't

or ones trying to take me for a ride!! LOL

Sticking caliper/dragging caliper is a possibility, but usually there'd be more symptoms like you noticing a burning brake smell and the 4Runner feeling like it pulls/darts when using the brakes.

This is certainty a wild ride you're on regardless of the outcome, I am really wondering what their process here is. Keep us updated!

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

Maybe someday you will learn to not go to dealerships and maybe even learn to do the work yourself?

You mean get a computer and a track with all the bells and whistles to do the alignment to see what's off?:yuck:

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

That alignment readout is a bit lacking, I would have liked to see at least Caster if not SAI. I wonder if that's just one of those alignment "quick checkers" we have a couple in lube bay and honestly aside from getting a rough idea of Toe, they tend to be a bit off on camber and caster. The wheel being set back a half inch made me wonder what the caster settings were as you can move the wheel around a bit by playing with that (it's one of the reasons a lot of people will opt for 4° of Caster when doing lifts.)




Sticking caliper/dragging caliper is a possibility, but usually there'd be more symptoms like you noticing a burning brake smell and the 4Runner feeling like it pulls/darts when using the brakes.

This is certainty a wild ride you're on regardless of the outcome, I am really wondering what their process here is. Keep us updated!

1st point :lookout:
I'm not sure how they came up with being 1/2 inch off... because I can easily stick 4 fingers behind the tire and the first top screw on the fender where the mud flaps are located on both front wheels. If the wheel was set back 1/2 an inch, then I should technically be able to fit 3 fingers not 4, as the average finger is about 1/2"... right??? Keeping in mind the steering wheel is set straight.

2nd point :lookout:
The runner has been feeling like it's been dragging ever since I went in for the recommended maintenance (to keep the factory warranty) when i did the 30,000 km maintenance and they "worked" on the brakes. The smell of burning brakes well not so much... unless I go through a puddle but that's just regular heat dissipating along the steam... The brakes do seem weaker though (take longer to come to a stop) than prior to when they worked on them...

After the 3rd dealer did the alignment I had noticed the pull during braking but it wasn't as noticeable as the pull while driving. The pull now is not that bad after the 3rd alignment within 2 weeks, but the wheel starts to turn right sharply during braking... Mind you all three alignments from the dealers did pull to the RIGHT during braking.

Third point. :lookout:
The second dealer where I went to for the alignment last week ( and now want to work on the brakes), the steering wheel was dead centre after the alignment .... but with the 1st and 3rd dealer's alignment, the steering wheel was always offset towards the right....If i tried to move the steering wheel to make it dead centre, ...... as I drove it, the steering wheel would start to weer to the right, to SETTLE in the off centre position and at the same time truck would eventually start to weer right So i dont know if that's the play you're referring to sir!!:usa2:


4th POINT :lookout:

Before i had ANY of the alignments done, the runner had a hard time DISENGAGING from 4WD HI to 2 wheel drive..... when i got the truck new going in and out of 2wd was instant... it started to have a harder time disengaging from 4wd HI to 2WD HI a few months ago.

By that i MEAN i would push the lever forward all the way............. and the green 4wd light would stay on unless I turned the steering wheel left a right a bit or slowed down, which would then cause the truck to disengage 4WD.. After i got the first alignment 2ish weeks ago that problem got solved.

I dont know if it has any significance but it's one of the positive outcomes of the alignment...................... BUT AFTER the alignment The truck shifts back into 2WD instantly without hesitation....


But let's not forget

I did not notice the pull until I installed the 4 new tires...........

With my winter tires ironically Cooper discoverers as well (m+S) the pull was minute.
I will let you guys know what happens...

 

[4runneroffroad2020]

Update,
So i went to the dealer, they looked at the calipers, put the car on the "track" for the alignment said everything was fine, and to take it back to the TIRE shop (canadian tire which is like pep boys in the U.S. i guess) where i got them from to get a new set...

So i took it to the tire shop, as soon as i left the DEALER (5 mins away from it) , explained to them what happened, they said they need to look at the alignment first before they can go ahead with any replacement tires. They put the car on their own track..... they took me to the back and showed me the LIVE results. The tolerances were all in the red, after the Toyota Dealer said the alignment was JUST FINE, just 5 min earlier!!

Anyways the Tire shop did the inspection for $60, and did the free alignment and the car did not pull...................... only during braking... which was because of the bent LCA??

So anyways a couple of weeks ago i let go of that 4runner and traded in for a Mustang GT.. now i have my other 4 runner and mustang....

BUT MY MAIN Question is, so how CAN THREE (3) TOYOTA DEALERS say that my car is fine, and still have the car pull, and a tire shop's alignment say it was off, and have the fix it for fraction of the cost??

OH AND BTW.... I put those same "problematic tires" on my other 4RUNNER, and the car DOES not pull at all!!!

This is insane!!!