Bilstein 6112/5160 vs Fox 2.0 - ???

[fifthcircle]

This will be on an '11 Trail w/KDSS.

I've been pouring over lift options lately. I'm pretty much zeroed in on these two for many reasons.

Ride quality is my #1 priority. Family hauler and daily driver!
I feel like Fox would be better, but I'm wondering if they will be nearly identical.


Just so you don't have to assume or ask questions:
Had a Tacoma with 5100's on stock springs. Wasn't impressed, but they were a budget item at the time, and felt good with the sway bar removed.
I assume that most people getting the Billy's are wanting to go 3" lift, or have heavier loads up front to adjust for. I'm not.
2" is perfect for me, with little kids and very little time to go wheeling.
Tires will be replaced soon after the lift. Either stock size or slightly larger, but probably not 285's. Just too much of a hit in MPG. I'll be on AT's for sure.
A Gobi rack/ladder and some skids/sliders are down the road. No immediate plans.


Or should I just get the damn Icon Stage 7? :clap2:

 

[my14runner]

This will be on an '11 Trail w/KDSS.

I've been pouring over lift options lately. I'm pretty much zeroed in on these two for many reasons.

Ride quality is my #1 priority. Family hauler and daily driver!
I feel like Fox would be better, but I'm wondering if they will be nearly identical.


Just so you don't have to assume or ask questions:
Had a Tacoma with 5100's on stock springs. Wasn't impressed, but they were a budget item at the time, and felt good with the sway bar removed.
I assume that most people getting the Billy's are wanting to go 3" lift, or have heavier loads up front to adjust for. I'm not.
2" is perfect for me, with little kids and very little time to go wheeling.
Tires will be replaced soon after the lift. Either stock size or slightly larger, but probably not 285's. Just too much of a hit in MPG. I'll be on AT's for sure.
A Gobi rack/ladder and some skids/sliders are down the road. No immediate plans.


Or should I just get the damn Icon Stage 7? :clap2:

I vote ICON Stage 7 haha GO BIG !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fifthcircle]

I vote ICON Stage 7 haha GO BIG !!!!!!!!!!!

:boink:

 

[catastrofe]

Your goals seem similar to mine.

I want to firm up the ride, but I'm not really focused on "lifting" (although there will probably be some impact. . .it's just not my primary desire). I like the factory rake so I'm not trying to "level" either.

I plan to go with 275/70/17 rubber in an AT version.

I've been thinking 6112/5160 with firmer springs. The question is "which springs"?

 

[marshal]

if you want to improve your ride, stay away from the FOX's. they're very stiff and sport oriented. Icon or going extreme like a King coil over will be your best setup

 

[sigbrown1297]

no point wasting your money on icon s7 if you're not doing heavy wheeling. I've got 6112/5160 with SAW coils and happy with the lift/ride.

 

[HerT4R]

price is the limiting factor. when you tell us that we can give you more reasonable recommendations...

the sky is the limit, how deep are your pockets my friend???

:wof::wof::wof:

 

[fifthcircle]

Fox is stiff huh? Glad I asked!

no point wasting your money on icon s7 if you're not doing heavy wheeling. I've got 6112/5160 with SAW coils and happy with the lift/ride.

Icon S7 was a joke. Although, I would go Icon if those are the best ride. I know it's more money, but if they truly are "worth it", I would do it. I may also just get coilovers, and wait to modify the rear, keeping it near level for now.


As for "heavy wheeling", I will be going off road! It's just not realistic to spend a ton of money creating a crawler oriented 4runner for ME. I love Moab and Colorado, and will take the runner there as often as possible. Family camping trips are in the future. I'm much more honest with myself these days, and I know I won't even be getting 7 days of REAL off road a year for some time.

I'm appreciating the discussion so far.

 

[CSix]

no point wasting your money on icon s7 if you're not doing heavy wheeling. I've got 6112/5160 with SAW coils and happy with the lift/ride.

What he said... See my build for details on the 6112/5160 and Icon 2" springs

 

[fifthcircle]

price is the limiting factor. when you tell us that we can give you more reasonable recommendations...

the sky is the limit, how deep are your pockets my friend???

:wof::wof::wof:

Mine. DEEP!!!!

BUT..... I have other hobbies where I spend most of my time/money. Homebrewing, Cycling and Motorcycles are the three big ones. KTM is proud of their bikes :naughty:

There is no point in spending $6k on suspension that will only see limited trail use. Ya know

 

[fifthcircle]

What he said... See my build for details on the 6112/5160 and Icon 2" springs

I like your write up. I'm pretty sure I'll just go with the Billy's. Easy, reliable and good ride quality at a price point that won't make me think I should be spending less.

Thread, over.

Thanks for the help all!

-Kurt

P.S. - CSix,
Where are you in CO? We just got back from visiting my bro-in-law near Erie (N. of Denver, for those not familiar). I would love to get out and run a trail when we are there, but my good buddy that I used to do that with, moved back here (Nebraska). I would really like to take my bro-in-law out too. He's not exactly what one would call adventurous. It would be fun to show him what he's missing! : He's got a Taco, and is looking at getting another one soon, but he doesn't eve know how to use the locker. :loco:

 

[CSix]

I like your write up. I'm pretty sure I'll just go with the Billy's. Easy, reliable and good ride quality at a price point that won't make me think I should be spending less.

Thread, over.

Thanks for the help all!

-Kurt

P.S. - CSix,
Where are you in CO? We just got back from visiting my bro-in-law near Erie (N. of Denver, for those not familiar). I would love to get out and run a trail when we are there, but my good buddy that I used to do that with, moved back here (Nebraska). I would really like to take my bro-in-law out too. He's not exactly what one would call adventurous. It would be fun to show him what he's missing! : He's got a Taco, and is looking at getting another one soon, but he doesn't eve know how to use the locker. :loco:

I'm south of C470. Let me know when you are in town. The 6112/5160 combo is night and day from the stock Trail suspension. I have to fit trail runs in between cycling and fishing trips for the wife. (Yes, she loves to fish while I ride!) I try to do a run around St johns Loop late July after the Triple Bypass (bike ride) and the snow melted enough to make it from Montezuma to Breckenridge.

 

[fifthcircle]

I'm south of C470. Let me know when you are in town. The 6112/5160 combo is night and day from the stock Trail suspension. I have to fit trail runs in between cycling and fishing trips for the wife. (Yes, she loves to fish while I ride!) I try to do a run around St johns Loop late July after the Triple Bypass (bike ride) and the snow melted enough to make it from Montezuma to Breckenridge.

Right on! My uncle is doing TBP this year. He's run Boston, and now that his knees won't let him marathon, he's mashing pedals. I'll be riding the mountain bikes with him a week after, in Hayward, WI.

You do any gravel riding? I love single track, but it's not great around here. I have started taking to the gravel roads, and my cousin talked me into doing Gravel Worlds this year. Good excuse to buy a new bike. All-City Macho Man Disc. I'm diggin' it. Not sure if I'll be able to finish the whole 150+ mi ride this year, but I'll try my best, and be better for it.

I'll shoot you a PM if I'm out that way again.... and I remember... which I probably won't... :wacko:

 

[RESQLAB]

if you want to improve your ride, stay away from the FOX's. they're very stiff and sport oriented. Icon or going extreme like a King coil over will be your best setup

thats not very accurate... the spring rate diff is very minimal between Fox & Icon for the 4Runner... if i remember right, like 25 lbs. plus, proper spring preload setting makes all the difference in ride quality.

just fyi- i ran the 2.0's F&R for a brief period and did enjoy them. for your needs, they would be a great way to go. however, the entire 2.0 coil-over needs to be fully removed for spring preload adjustments... thats why i sold them and got 2.5's. w/DSC.

(the only thing that sucks about fox is their customer service is less than stellar)

 

[Jetboy]

thats not very accurate... the spring rate diff is very minimal between Fox & Icon for the 4Runner... if i remember right, like 25 lbs. plus, proper spring preload setting makes all the difference in ride quality.

just fyi- i ran the 2.0's F&R for a brief period and did enjoy them. for your needs, they would be a great way to go. however, the entire 2.0 coil-over needs to be fully removed for spring preload adjustments... thats why i sold them and got 2.5's. w/DSC.

(the only thing that sucks about fox is their customer service is less than stellar)

Can you explain why you need to remove the 2.0 to adjust? Is it due to the inability to reach the adjustment nuts or is there something else in the design that doesn't work? I've been wanting a setup that I can adjust up or down easily.

 

[RESQLAB]

adjustment ring is located on the bottom of the shock (and made of plastic)

 

[AudiTech]

I like your write up. I'm pretty sure I'll just go with the Billy's. Easy, reliable and good ride quality at a price point that won't make me think I should be spending less.

Thread, over.

Thanks for the help all!

-Kurt

P.S. - CSix,
Where are you in CO? We just got back from visiting my bro-in-law near Erie (N. of Denver, for those not familiar). I would love to get out and run a trail when we are there, but my good buddy that I used to do that with, moved back here (Nebraska). I would really like to take my bro-in-law out too. He's not exactly what one would call adventurous. It would be fun to show him what he's missing! : He's got a Taco, and is looking at getting another one soon, but he doesn't eve know how to use the locker. :loco:

I'm in Erie

 

[Jhalko]

I'm not that adventurous either but if something gets organized let me know!

And I vote for toytec boss... Clearly biased.

 

[tigger]

if you want to improve your ride, stay away from the FOX's. they're very stiff and sport oriented. Icon or going extreme like a King coil over will be your best setup

Have to disagree with this at slow to normal speeds. I just installed the Fox Factory 2.5 in the front and performance 2.0 in the rear. While it is a little stiffer than the stock crap that was on mine (was total mush), it is not as stiff as the TRD pro which is the Bilstein 6112. In fact I still think is is too soft as I get the nose dive when braking.

The Fox's might be stiffer at high speeds off-road.

Read up on digressive (Bilstein 6112) vs progressive (Fox) to understand why.

As far as adjustment, the 2.0 you would probably have to take off to adjust. The 2.5 can be adjusted while on the vehicle as the collar is on top (and it is aluminum, not plastic) But they are a little more expensive at $1000 a pair.

 

[marshal]

thats not very accurate... the spring rate diff is very minimal between Fox & Icon for the 4Runner... if i remember right, like 25 lbs. plus, proper spring preload setting makes all the difference in ride quality.

just fyi- i ran the 2.0's F&R for a brief period and did enjoy them. for your needs, they would be a great way to go. however, the entire 2.0 coil-over needs to be fully removed for spring preload adjustments... thats why i sold them and got 2.5's. w/DSC.

(the only thing that sucks about fox is their customer service is less than stellar)

spring rate has nothing to do with the shocks themselves. you're assuming the OP wants shock/spring combo packs which totally negates the purpose of the thread anyway.

Have to disagree with this at slow to normal speeds. I just installed the Fox Factory 2.5 in the front and performance 2.0 in the rear. While it is a little stiffer than the stock crap that was on mine (was total mush), it is not as stiff as the TRD pro which is the Bilstein 6112. In fact I still think is is too soft as I get the nose dive when braking.

The Fox's might be stiffer at high speeds off-road.

Read up on digressive (Bilstein 6112) vs progressive (Fox) to understand why.

As far as adjustment, the 2.0 you would probably have to take off to adjust. The 2.5 can be adjusted while on the vehicle as the collar is on top (and it is aluminum, not plastic) But they are a little more expensive at $1000 a pair.

I'm quite familiar with digressive vs progressive valving - and i stand by what i said. digressive doesnt entirely reverse the compression and rebound arc versus progressive. digressive just means that the shim stack inside the shock is much more complex, and the compression peak resistance is not at the end of the line, its more in the middle and determined by the manufacturer.

so yes, FOX's will get stiffer as they are abused more while the blisteins will get softer in certain conditions.

the next question to ask you is what springs did you use and where did you get the shocks from? because its a pretty well known position that FOX factory valving on shocks is very stiff (read truck like, but not empty dump truck) there are many companies that order their own versions of preexisting FOX shocks with specific valving. and beyond that - if you ordered a kit from someone that includes the springs, your spring measurements may be entirely different than that of the TuRD Pro.

if you're getting nose dive with the FOX's you may want to consider bringing your control arms back into spec with a set of upper control arms if you haven't already. nose dive is more geometry based than compression resistance.