Bilstien 5100s for front, what for the rear?

[jetboy1975]

I've got a 2004 Limited with the rear air and xreas. I bought fj springs and a spacer kit for the front to level it out, but now I'm thinking of just dumping the xreas and going with the 5100s to level the front. What do you guys recommend for rear shock replacements?

 

[borgzman]

I have Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks in the rear.Bilstein shocks and struts for cars and trucks - Shockwarehouse.com
Its a direct replacement and no raise in rear height. Its stiffer than the original Tokico shocks but not uncomfortable. Its just smooth in 40mph, and no need for you to apply brakes in bump stops if you are already slow. The vehicle feels like floating in water. I also have the Bilstein 5100 Front height Adjustables in front. The combination is smooth ride, less body roll during turns and less nose dive when braking.

Rear - Bilstein F4-BE5-C514-HO
Front - Bilstein 5100 Adjustable

With that setup(for daily driver) IMO there is no need for me to get the FJC Springs, because 90 percent of aftermarket shocks will usually make ride stiffer to address the marsmallowy complains in original shocks, so I think combining it with FJC springs will add to the stiffness??( correct me if I'm wrong). The FJC springs is good as an upgrade if you still have the factory Tokico shocks. It is thicker and with one extra loop??

Edited : Will not work on vehicles with self leveling suspension. see link below

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Those Bilstein HD's are longer than stock, and they could cause issues with your rear air sytem. You're best bet with the rear FJ system is a full FJ suspension swap or KYB GR2 shocks. There's actually a set of the KYB's in the for sale section for dirt cheap. I have the same suspension setup (03 with XREAS and rear air suspension) and I installed a 1/2" Toytec spacer and FJ Cruiser springs in the front. I gained 1.5" of lift and it leveled out nicely. This same setup combined with the KYB's would be a great "stock" like replacement option.

 

[borgzman]

Bilstein F4-BE5-C514-HO is same length as the factory shocks. Bilstein said its "OE" shocks unlike the "5100" series where they specified for lifted vehicle application.
Comparing those shocks :Bilstein - KYB - Rancho - Monroe - Edelbrock Automotive Truck Shocks and Struts - Shockwarehouse.com those that provides lift is labeled "Suspension Lift Product" as warning to buyers.Or I miss something.. If it is longer, I should have different measurement in the rear after the install since the ratio is 1:1 in the rear.
From this installation :http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gallery/62359-norcal-2004-4runner.htmlhe didn't mention that the HD shocks is longer, The 0.5 in he gained in the rear I think is due to the FJ springs also installed.

Well MANY choices like KYBs, Monroes sensatrac, Tokico USA, Ranchos..
For me, I just don't want to go with different brands Front and Rear.

Edited: wrong link

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I've spent a good deal of time talking with the Toytec rep that's signed up on here. He's the one who gave me actual measurements and based on those, others suggested I find a different shock to use with the rear air. I think the problem is that loaded, there is enough weight to compress the longer shock so there is little/no difference in ride height. Where you run into issues is that the shock now has much more travel, so much that it can drop down far enough to cause damage to the rear air bags. That's based on my understanding after a good bit of reading/posting. If I'm wrong, someone please step in and let me know as I'm going off of what I've read, not experienced.

 

[borgzman]

I've spent a good deal of time talking with the Toytec rep that's signed up on here. He's the one who gave me actual measurements and based on those, others suggested I find a different shock to use with the rear air. I think the problem is that loaded, there is enough weight to compress the longer shock so there is little/no difference in ride height. Where you run into issues is that the shock now has much more travel, so much that it can drop down far enough to cause damage to the rear air bags. That's based on my understanding after a good bit of reading/posting. If I'm wrong, someone please step in and let me know as I'm going off of what I've read, not experienced.

Ok..,
I don't have the rear air system. :snacker:

 

[chaz]

ARK is correct, this link states the HD will not work on self adjusting suspension. AllShocks.com | 2004*TOYOTA*4Runner Bilstein Shocks' of course u can swap out the rear bags for springs, but it will cost some $. Air suspension - convert to OME? - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

 

[borgzman]

Holy! so the coils and air bags sits differently in the axle? Sorry didn't know.(because mostly retaining the X-reas is the only problem)
Well, I 'm not comfortable even swapping it with springs, and use replacement shocks. I would probably wait go OEM. :biggrin2:

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Yea, there is some difference in the two setups. There is nothing preventing you from swapping out all 4 shocks and also the front coils. You don't "have" to keep XREAS. However, when searching for replacement shocks, they need to be the same length as stock in the rear to prevent issues. The FJ shocks are ~.25" longer than stock in the rear. The Bilstein HD's originally posted are I think over 2" longer than stock, which is where the problem arises.

 

[borgzman]

By looking at it, the shocks Rear - Bilstein F4-BE5-C514-HO and my Tokico rear shocks looks the same in overall lenght, also the welds are thicker in Bilsteins. I cant find the specs that they are taller and should have noticed that after the install since it should increase in rear height.

But if you you mean is the CYLINDER in Bilstein HD is longer, then maybe.. It could be designed for more piston travel, and would basically have effect having air springs, and hence not compatible with vehicles with rear air systems. It could probably stretch that with its different rebound characteristic..
For those doesn't have the rear air suspension, Bilstein HDs are direct swap

So Ark, when the time comes that those will be worn out, Are you planning to convert it to springs? or will just look for compatible shocks?

 

[jetboy1975]

Borgzman, what's the part # for your fronts? Did you get them new or are they an FJ swap?

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I was tempted to do the Bilsten 5100 fronts so I could have the adjustables, but after tons of reading/posting I came to the conclusion it wouldn't work. That's what all the guys told me, even sales reps from different places. I ended up going with a 1/2" Toytec spacer and FJ coils on the front of my 4runner. It gave the lift I wanted and also a much improved ride, so I'm very satisfied. When it comes time to replace, the adjustable Bilsteins won't even be considered because the stock setup rides great (that is, even if they did work). As for what I do use when that time comes, it depends on the deal. If I could find a good deal on low mileage stock FJ shocks, preferrably trail teams, I'm going that route. If not, the KYB GR2s are a great stock like replacement option and will be my choice (combined with the FJ springs/spacer in the front). You can keep the rear air and use these shocks since both are very close to the length of the stock shocks. I'm keeping the rear air until I have troubles with it that can't be resolved. I love it, no plans to go to coils until it's my last option.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Also, here is my thread on the subject. A good bit of reading, but worth it IMO.

 

[jetboy1975]

Why won't the adjustable 5100s work?

 

[chaz]

he may mean cause u wont be able to get 5100s for the rear, also because they are meant to used with stock 4r springs not FJ springs, it may lead to premature failure (debatable) but there are guys who have used OME coils with them. not that u cant just use the fronts , but its always better to have matching sets so characteristics are the same. but i know some without the rear bags that just used the front with 1.5 spacers in the rear for now until they can afford the rear 5100. the RAS allows the back to go a bit lower than a 4r without it, thats why longer shocks are out, there is a defeat mod u can do for it tho. personally, i love the 5100s, but if someone wants a closer to stock ride id say get the KYBs, of course there people that would say they're way stiffer than stock, but thats why you upgrade.

 

[jetboy1975]

Thanks, I get it now.....all I need to find out now is which FJ Bilstiens fit. Are all the 5100s the same? I've got a deal on some off a 2010 FJ TRD, will they work if I find something for the rear? I have a full set of stock FJ Tokiko shocks already and could use the rears.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Yep chaz got it right, I prefer a matching set. The 5100s work on the front, just not the rear.

 

[chaz]

the bilsteins the fj uses are not 5100, im not even sure they're HD, bilstein just makes them for toyota. tokico s can not be compared to the bilsteins, they give a much softer ride for the street. i assume since the billi CO are the same for years 03-09, & the same fits the 07-09 fj that yes they should fit, but dont take my word for it, better find out for sure.

 

[jetboy1975]

Man the more I read the more discouraged I get. I didn't realize the airbags were going to be such a PITA but I need to keep them for towing. I thought it would be a simple swap but every sight I look at says something different. I'd like to dump the xreas since it has 100k on it but now I'm leaning towards the fj spring spacer route and pray the shocks hold out for a while.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Man the more I read the more discouraged I get. I didn't realize the airbags were going to be such a PITA but I need to keep them for towing. I thought it would be a simple swap but every sight I look at says something different. I'd like to dump the xreas since it has 100k on it but now I'm leaning towards the fj spring spacer route and pray the shocks hold out for a while.

This is the exact same conclusion I came to. There's so many different answers out there, it's hard to know who to believe. I ended up deciding it wasn't worth the chance. I've got 132k and counting on my XREAS. No leaking shocks, still a good ride, so I just keep my fingers crossed that it'll hold out for a while longer. I got the springs and spacer and (for the moment at least) couldn't be happier.