Blown axle seal...

[Zhehan]

So, this happened yesterday. I was replacing a non-functional CC Clutch Switch and noticed a puddle on the ground. I also smelled gear oil. I checked the Diff Breather and it is not clogged.

I've watched Timmy's video. Parts + Tools to do the job myself are well over $1k if I do both axles + brakes. And, there is zero reason to not do both axles + brakes if I'm going to get in there at all. It's $1895.00 to have a shop do the work with a warranty. So, that's the route I'm going to take. It's just gonna be a while before that happens. Truck is parked for the time being.

:dammit:

 

[JZiggy]

Where you located? Maybe someone on the forum can help you. It’s not a hard job. There was a guy loaning out the press tool for a while as well.

 

[JohnMc]

*opens mouth to mention breather*

I checked the Diff Breather and it is not clogged.

*closes mouth*

Well, it might still be worth double checking it, even if the cap will jiggle, it's possible it's still clogged? Maybe take it off and try blowing through it? As opposed to just letting the truck sit for a long while.

Other than that, I'd double check to see if the wheel bearing is bad on that wheel. That's sometimes why a seal starts leaking.

Taking the axle shaft out to replace the wheel really doesn't take too much effort, 30 minutes per side? Wheel off, drum off, unscrew and plug the brake line, unhook the parking brake, undo 4 bolts, and slide it out. The seal is just pressed into the axle housing.

If the wheel bearing is bad, get some parts and just take it to a local machine shop and have them do the press work, costs something liek $30 - $40. Easy work for them, make sure they take note of the gaps between the various pressed on parts (bearing, ABS tone ring, seal collar). Unlike the vast majority of stacked up pressed on parts, they do NOT get pressed up against each other.

 

[Sarki]

Think long and hard before bringing it to a shop for rear axle seal/bearing replacement as the general consensus is that the majority of shops, even Toyota dealerships, will screw it up.
It’s not that the repair is very difficult, it’s that the shop is unaware of the revised seal design so they don’t make accommodations for the change which results in……a leaky axle seal.
Generally speaking I try to do all repairs myself as it’s harder and harder to find a knowledgeable and trustworthy shop.
It also gives me an opportunity to crawl under my rig and get to know her a little better as well as check on any other potential issues.

 

[mtbtim]

Think long and hard before bringing it to a shop for rear axle seal/bearing replacement as the general consensus is that the majority of shops, even Toyota dealerships, will screw it up.
It’s not that the repair is very difficult, it’s that the shop is unaware of the revised seal design so they don’t make accommodations for the change which results in……a leaky axle seal.
Generally speaking I try to do all repairs myself as it’s harder and harder to find a knowledgeable and trustworthy shop.
It also gives me an opportunity to crawl under my rig and get to know her a little better as well as check on any other potential issues.

Dude, I couldn't have said it better myself. I was just about to comment on this thread and say something very similar. Private shops and dealerships screw up this job all the time. It's got to be one of the most common repairs shops botch.

OP, there is a free loaner program available for the special axle tool but you have to wait your turn to use it. I can't remember the thread for the axle tool loaner program but hopefully somebody will chime in with the link.

Even if you bought the tool yourself from my buddy Duane, you could always resell it. It sounds like you don't own a 20 Ton Harbor Freight Press but you really should get one if you plan on tackling future jobs like front wheel bearings and control arm bushing replacements. The Harbor Freight press will pay for itself after one use.

So OP, you've been warned. No coming back to this thread and crying about how the shop messed up the job for you. Take our advice and make the tool investments and make sure the job gets done right.

 

[JohnMc]

It sounds like you don't own a 20 Ton Harbor Freight Press but you really should get one if you plan on tackling future jobs like front wheel bearings and control arm bushing replacements. The Harbor Freight press will pay for itself after one use.

Heh, I have a small bearing press tool that uses a screw, similar to a big hub puller. I've used it on a variety of other automotive wheel bearings, most recently on my Miata, where it worked very easily.

And recently when I tried it out on the front 4Runner hubs (doing a manual hub swap on my '99)... lol, didn't budge those 4Runner hubs AT ALL. Nothing. For that matter, the first machine shop I took them to gave up after a couple of weeks, said they threw as much pressure as they felt safe doing at it, nothing budged, they didn't want to break anything (my parts, their press, themselves for standing nearby?). The second shop got it done with no drama though.

 

[mtbtim]

Heh, I have a small bearing press tool that uses a screw, similar to a big hub puller. I've used it on a variety of other automotive wheel bearings, most recently on my Miata, where it worked very easily.

And recently when I tried it out on the front 4Runner hubs (doing a manual hub swap on my '99)... lol, didn't budge those 4Runner hubs AT ALL. Nothing. For that matter, the first machine shop I took them to gave up after a couple of weeks, said they threw as much pressure as they felt safe doing at it, nothing budged, they didn't want to break anything (my parts, their press, themselves for standing nearby?). The second shop got it done with no drama though.

Pressing the hub out of the front wheel bearing takes a tremendous amount of force but the 20 ton press can do it. What sucks is sometimes the outer bearing race gets stuck onto the shaft of the hub. Those bearings have a split inner bearing race.

 

[Zhehan]

Where you located? Maybe someone on the forum can help you. It’s not a hard job. There was a guy loaning out the press tool for a while as well.

I live in the Portland, OR metro area.

*opens mouth to mention breather*

*closes mouth*

Well, it might still be worth double checking it, even if the cap will jiggle, it's possible it's still clogged? Maybe take it off and try blowing through it? As opposed to just letting the truck sit for a long while.

Other than that, I'd double check to see if the wheel bearing is bad on that wheel. That's sometimes why a seal starts leaking.

.

I took the breather off and blew through it. It's not clogged. I'll check the wheel bearing play. Thanks for the tip.

Think long and hard before bringing it to a shop for rear axle seal/bearing replacement as the general consensus is that the majority of shops, even Toyota dealerships, will screw it up.
It’s not that the repair is very difficult, it’s that the shop is unaware of the revised seal design so they don’t make accommodations for the change which results in……a leaky axle seal.
Generally speaking I try to do all repairs myself as it’s harder and harder to find a knowledgeable and trustworthy shop.
It also gives me an opportunity to crawl under my rig and get to know her a little better as well as check on any other potential issues.

This is the first time I've had this problem. I've had several shops work on it over the years doing ring and pinion / differential work and have never had leaky axle seal. The last shop to touch it did the work over 9 years ago. It just started leaking. I would have them do the work again. I've done just about everything else on the truck myself. I am pretty familiar with it.

Dude, I couldn't have said it better myself. I was just about to comment on this thread and say something very similar. Private shops and dealerships screw up this job all the time. It's got to be one of the most common repairs shops botch.

OP, there is a free loaner program available for the special axle tool but you have to wait your turn to use it. I can't remember the thread for the axle tool loaner program but hopefully somebody will chime in with the link.

Even if you bought the tool yourself from my buddy Duane, you could always resell it. It sounds like you don't own a 20 Ton Harbor Freight Press but you really should get one if you plan on tackling future jobs like front wheel bearings and control arm bushing replacements. The Harbor Freight press will pay for itself after one use.

So OP, you've been warned. No coming back to this thread and crying about how the shop messed up the job for you. Take our advice and make the tool investments and make sure the job gets done right.

I appreciate your input, Tim. I don't have a garage or space to store the Harbor Freight press. I don't want to deal with buying and selling it. It's not just the press I'd have to buy, either.

As I mentioned above, there is a good shop in my area that I could trust with the work. They do a ton of work on Toyota 4x4's including axles, R&P, etc.. Is it going to cost me more money? Yes. But, not all of us have ideal situations sometimes. This is one of those times for me. It's just really bad timing.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Bad Luck]

I live in the Portland, OR metro area.

I took the breather off and blew through it. It's not clogged. I'll check the wheel bearing play. Thanks for the tip.

This is the first time I've had this problem. I've had several shops work on it over the years doing ring and pinion / differential work and have never had leaky axle seal. The last shop to touch it did the work over 9 years ago. It just started leaking. I would have them do the work again. I've done just about everything else on the truck myself. I am pretty familiar with it.



I appreciate your input, Tim. I don't have a garage or space to store the Harbor Freight press. I don't want to deal with buying and selling it. It's not just the press I'd have to buy, either.

As I mentioned above, there is a good shop in my area that I could trust with the work. They do a ton of work on Toyota 4x4's including axles, R&P, etc.. Is it going to cost me more money? Yes. But, not all of us have ideal situations sometimes. This is one of those times for me. It's just really bad timing.

Thanks again, everyone.

I would recommend replacing at least the bearing on the side that leaks. What happens is the gear oil that gets past the seal has to flow through the wheel bearing and that washes all the grease out of the wheel bearing. There's been lots of people that end up having to replace the wheel bearing shortly after just doing the axle seal. Here's the part numbers I have for doing the rear axle bearings/seals:

Rear wheel bearing 90363-40020-77 or Nachi 6308-2NSE (96-00) / 90363-40068 or NSK 40BW06CG50 (01-02)
Rear axle retainer42423-20010 (2 per side)
Snap ring 90520-36045
Outer seal 90313-48001 (96-00) or 90313-54001 (01-02)
Inner seal 90310-50006
O Ring 90301-88077

 

[mtbtim]

I live in the Portland, OR metro area.

I took the breather off and blew through it. It's not clogged. I'll check the wheel bearing play. Thanks for the tip.

This is the first time I've had this problem. I've had several shops work on it over the years doing ring and pinion / differential work and have never had leaky axle seal. The last shop to touch it did the work over 9 years ago. It just started leaking. I would have them do the work again. I've done just about everything else on the truck myself. I am pretty familiar with it.



I appreciate your input, Tim. I don't have a garage or space to store the Harbor Freight press. I don't want to deal with buying and selling it. It's not just the press I'd have to buy, either.

As I mentioned above, there is a good shop in my area that I could trust with the work. They do a ton of work on Toyota 4x4's including axles, R&P, etc.. Is it going to cost me more money? Yes. But, not all of us have ideal situations sometimes. This is one of those times for me. It's just really bad timing.

Thanks again, everyone.

I get it, not having the space is a problem. Even though the shop does have experience with Toyotas, I'd still question them regarding the nuances of this job, mainly the part about the redesign of the rear axle seal and how they plan to address it. It would be my bet that they don't flip the retainer which means they either have to reposition the inner retainer more inboard having it get really close to rubbing the inside of the axle housing, or they don't seat the axle seal all the way in. The 3rd option is they do neither and they do it just like the FSM instructs and now you have a seal barely riding on the polished shoulder of the retainer which will equate to an early failure of the seal in most cases.

 

[texadelphia]

I live in the Portland, OR metro area.



I took the breather off and blew through it. It's not clogged. I'll check the wheel bearing play. Thanks for the tip.



This is the first time I've had this problem. I've had several shops work on it over the years doing ring and pinion / differential work and have never had leaky axle seal. The last shop to touch it did the work over 9 years ago. It just started leaking. I would have them do the work again. I've done just about everything else on the truck myself. I am pretty familiar with it.







I appreciate your input, Tim. I don't have a garage or space to store the Harbor Freight press. I don't want to deal with buying and selling it. It's not just the press I'd have to buy, either.



As I mentioned above, there is a good shop in my area that I could trust with the work. They do a ton of work on Toyota 4x4's including axles, R&P, etc.. Is it going to cost me more money? Yes. But, not all of us have ideal situations sometimes. This is one of those times for me. It's just really bad timing.



Thanks again, everyone.

I took my axles to Don's machine shop out in Gresham. I explained how I wanted them done, per Timmy's direction, and they did it right. That was 2 years ago. No leaks.

There's also a machine shop attached to the Napa at SE 9th and Morrison that's been doing them for decades. I was going to go to them but the place in Gresham was closer.

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[Zhehan]

I took my axles to Don's machine shop out in Gresham. I explained how I wanted them done, per Timmy's direction, and they did it right. That was 2 years ago. No leaks.

There's also a machine shop attached to the Napa at SE 9th and Morrison that's been doing them for decades. I was going to go to them but the place in Gresham was closer.

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Thanks for this. I'm on the west side. But, it's nice to have options.

This is how bad it's leaking as of today and what I came home to:

I put a jackstand on that side so it's elevated and will hopefully stop running out. It was running out the center cap on the outside as well, which means the bearing is definitely toast.

I have neither the time nor the money currently to deal with this. This isn't a daily driver, so it can sit like this until I can deal with it. Holiday Season, Property Taxes, paying for a recent vacation, plus the months of work I put into it this year are taking their toll financially.

Thanks again all for your input.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I don't understand how doing a seal and brakes cost $1100 if you do it yourself? The parts, including the bearing, should only cost less than $200. You only have to replace the brake shoes, not the entire brake system and that's also only if the shoes got wet, which is not always the case. I would not touch the other side if it's not leaking as others have said, it's easy to mess it up and have it leak again. The ABS ring and one of the retainers should be able to be re-used by the machine shop when you have the bearings pressed in.

 

[BretMann]

I agree, and you may want to check for torque specs where leaks can happen.

 

[Zhehan]

Both seals are leaking now, so I drained the diff. This truck is gonna be parked until spring. As for pricing, I plan to replace both drums, which are $164/ea. The bearings are $88/ea. Brake shoes are $96 for a full set. So, it gets expensive quickly. I didn't realize a buddy of mine had a shop press, so he and I may take this on when I can afford to buy everything.

Cheers.

 

[Johnnie]

change them yourself, sometimes they need bearings sometimes they don't, the last 2 I did was several years ago and they have not leaked yet. because of the cost of replacing the bearings its worth trying it

 

[gamefreakgc]

Both seals are leaking now, so I drained the diff. This truck is gonna be parked until spring. As for pricing, I plan to replace both drums, which are $164/ea. The bearings are $88/ea. Brake shoes are $96 for a full set. So, it gets expensive quickly. I didn't realize a buddy of mine had a shop press, so he and I may take this on when I can afford to buy everything.

Cheers.

The drums can be turned just like a rotor. Mine were pitted and worn after 200K miles and had both of them turned for $30 and work fantastic now. Buying new drums is spending money where it isn't needed, unless you've already had them turned a few times and thickness is a problem.

 

[texadelphia]

The drums can be turned just like a rotor. Mine were pitted and worn after 200K miles and had both of them turned for $30 and work fantastic now. Buying new drums is spending money where it isn't needed, unless you've already had them turned a few times and thickness is a problem.

Also had my drums turned by the shop that pressed on the axle retainers.

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[Zhehan]

My problem is I'm all doom 'n gloom when it comes to problems like this. It's a feature. hwell:

I'll take a look at the driver's side sometime this week and see if there is play in the bearing. It was leaking for a while before I could figure out where the smell of gear oil was coming from. I put some stop leak in the diff and it held for about 2 weeks and then it just let go the other day. So, the brake shoes are probably contaminated.

I also was under the impression that if the shoes are contaminated, and you drive like that, you can impregnate the metal in the drums, which even if turned, will re-contaminate new shoes.

At any rate, I'll take a look at things and re-assess.

 

[octanejunkie]

My problem is I'm all doom 'n gloom when it comes to problems like this. It's a feature. hwell:

I'll take a look at the driver's side sometime this week and see if there is play in the bearing. It was leaking for a while before I could figure out where the smell of gear oil was coming from. I put some stop leak in the diff and it held for about 2 weeks and then it just let go the other day. So, the brake shoes are probably contaminated.

I also was under the impression that if the shoes are contaminated, and you drive like that, you can impregnate the metal in the drums, which even if turned, will re-contaminate new shoes.

At any rate, I'll take a look at things and re-assess.

Dude, put the crack pipe down; it's not all doom and gloom.

If the oil is leaking straight down chances re the shoes are not soaked, and even if they were, new shoes are $30 a set. Clean everything up and figure out if your bearings are short or not. Doing the seals is easy, but figure out what is causing it to leak like that, that's a gusher.

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