Blown Gasket -- need advice

[gbc]

So this is how the story goes.....

2 weeks ago while driving down the highway, a peace of wood(8" long X 2" thick) flew of a semi truck and bounced of the road and I ran over it while it continued its journey down the road. The impact was felt under my when it hit the metal plate under the engine block.

I noticed the truck leaking(it never leaked before) and brought it to the dealer yesterday. So they call me today and tell me my head gasket is blown and my radiator need to be changed... WTF!!

Questions:
------------

What symptoms do you get when head gasket is blown? I never noticed any leaks, they told me its an outside leak.....I never noticed any white smoke, black smoke or any smell prior to the highway situation 2 weeks ago.

I don't know anything about mechanics but I work in IT and troubleshoot everyday, this might not be relevant but here is a shot in the dark.....so if it never leaked prior to the highway incident then that would mean the gasket was leaking and drying out from the heat of the engine?? that would explain why it never leaked before!?

Also, no check engine light came on....


Thx for the input

Specs: 2006 4x4 Runner Sport Edition

 

[Sungod]

V6? A piece of wood isn't likely to cause head gasket damage unless that wood took out your radiator and you overheated. It isn't always the head gasket that is the problem; it is the distortion of the block or head that allow gasket to fail. You could be in for more than a head gasket.

Symptoms of head gasket failure are fluid loss/contamination and/or compression loss. Basically your HG is responsible for keeping everything separated. You should ask them what they are seeing that makes them call the HG. Obviously if your radiator is bad that rules out them doing a pressure test on the cooling system. Personally, I would shy away from a HG call if they are calling it on fluid contamination depending on exactly what that wood may have broken. The contamination could have occurred outside the HG. That is just shooting in the dark because I haven't seen it, but if it were me, unless they were saying that there were loss of compression, I wouldn't do a HG right away. I would fix the damage caused by the wood then check the HG.

 

[aha2988]

I'm going to agree with sungod on this, theres no way that piece of wood effected your head gasket. It may have caught the bottom exposed portion of your radiator causing the fluid leak (im assuming the leaking fluid you found was antifreeze coolant?) Theres skid plates under the vehicle the wood would've hit before it could damage anything else (i.e oil pan, front diff, cross members, transission pan.)

However... There is a comon TSB (toyota service bulleton) that notes the V6 to have a comon head gasket leak issue. I believe the comon leak area on the HG to be on the #6 cylinder area. I'm assuming the shop is A. diagnosing your radiator damage. & B.) while your truck is in there they figured they would try to get any other repair costs out of your pocket they can (thats when they turn to the TSB's).

If you havn't had any missfiring issues or rough idling issues its likely your head gasket is fine. I would deffinantly ask the shop why they feel the head gasket is leaking. If they respond that they performed a leak down test on the motor tell them you would like to see the test preformed in front of you and have them show you there diagnos's while there performing the leak down test ask them to show you the what the correct readings should be by preforming the same test on the opposite side of the engine (the other head gasket) I believe any job requiring the head's to be pulled on these trucks sits at a 17 hour job it toyota's flat rate schedule so extremly expensive. dont let them sucker you out of your money unless its truly needed!!

 

[gbc]

She told me the radiator is leaking as well as the head gasket.....The peace of wood probably damaged the radiator, but like I said previously, I never noticed any performance issues, no leaks etc....prior to the wood incident. When I told her this she told me the leak is outside not inside.....She also told me the head gasket also leaked coolant NOT oil.....

So I should replace the radiator and make a compression test.

If the compression test fails that means the head gasket need to be replaced correct?

If the compression test succeeds but there is still a leak whats the next step?

 

[MikeInNH]

The best test for a blown head gasket is a hydrocarbon test.

Symptoms of a Blown Head Gasket

Compression test may or may not tell you if you have a blown head gasket.

So get the radiator fixed..then do the hydrocarbon test. I'm in agreement with sungod...damage done to the radiator couldn't have caused a head gasket problem unless the engine over heated.

 

[gbc]

The best test for a blown head gasket is a hydrocarbon test.

Symptoms of a Blown Head Gasket

Compression test may or may not tell you if you have a blown head gasket.

So get the radiator fixed..then do the hydrocarbon test. I'm in agreement with sungod...damage done to the radiator couldn't have caused a head gasket problem unless the engine over heated.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the engine did not overheat, I would of noticed the temp meter go up but it never did, unless of course the thermostat/sensors of gauge is faulty and the engine did overheat....and if it did wouldn't I notice smoke coming from the hood?

Anybody have that TSB number? If this is a known issue isn't toyota suppose to fix it?

 

[aha2988]

She told me the radiator is leaking as well as the head gasket.....The peace of wood probably damaged the radiator, but like I said previously, I never noticed any performance issues, no leaks etc....prior to the wood incident. When I told her this she told me the leak is outside not inside.....She also told me the head gasket also leaked coolant NOT oil.....

So I should replace the radiator and make a compression test.

If the compression test fails that means the head gasket need to be replaced correct?

If the compression test succeeds but there is still a leak whats the next step?

If it's leaking coolant to the outside of the engine as opposed to into the cylinder theres no real threat here. A compression test will tell you if the head gasket is leaking out of the cylinder(which would cause running issues down the road if not now) If its just leaking coolant outside the engine i wouldnt put the money into the repair just keep an eye on your coolant levels these trucks burn off coolant anyway so its not any more maintance than shouldve been givin before noticing the leak. (just keep a mental note a head gasket replace should be on the list over the next year or so just to keep the vehicle tip top as well clean the area the coolant is leaking onto exposed metal as it can cause corrosion and eat away at things)

another way to tell if coolant is getting into the cylinder firing area is to pull the sparkplug the tip of the plug will have a steam cleaned look (from burnt coolant) as opposed to minor carbon deposits.

also while the engines running after the new radiator install take the radiator cap off while the engines running look for air bubbles in the opening for the radiator cap. (do this durring cold start up as i.e when the radiator cap isnt hot lol)

Edit: -Yes replace the radiator(unless its a small leak that can be pluged or patched with radiator stop leak not recommended though)
-yes get compression test
-Yes if compression test fails replace head gasket
-if the compression test passes, keep eye on leaking area and drive the truck like normal!

 

[aha2988]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the engine did not overheat, I would of noticed the temp meter go up but it never did, unless of course the thermostat/sensors of gauge is faulty and the engine did overheat....and if it did wouldn't I notice smoke coming from the hood?

Anybody have that TSB number? If this is a known issue isn't toyota suppose to fix it?

I dont have the TSB # if the trucks under waranty toyota may cover it but i doubt it. theres over a dozen reports of HG failure on V6's on cylinder #6. i just haven't researched the issue as i have the V8.

yes you would've seen your temp gauge skyrocket, as well your windsheild typically steams up durring engine overheating. You would see Steam rising from the hood not smoke. also your air condition would start blowing out hot air. always always trust your thermostate gauges reading. (if it failed it wouldnt read any temp at all)

 

[MikeInNH]

If this is a known issue isn't toyota suppose to fix it?

In a word...NO. They are under no obligation to fix this problem.

Before you jump to any conclusions...first get the radiator fixed and then determine if the head gasket is actually bad. I'm suspecting it's NOT.

 

[gbc]

ok thanks a lot guys, I told them to replace the radiator, I just hope they didn't screw anything up voluntarily......

I will report back tomorrow.

 

[gbc]

I went to pickup my truck yesterday and they showed me the area that was leaking....it almost looks like somebody spray painted that part of the vehicle.

When I went to pickup the vehicle they had closed everything up and put it on a lift to show me the area behind the tire. So visually, I have no clue what I am looking at, but thats what the tech pointed out to me.

This morning I took 2 pics of the area, let me know what you guys think.
I remember seeing that reddish spot every time i change my tires though....

 

[aha2988]

looks like coolant leaking from your headgasket lol the pink color comes from the color of the toyota antifreeze obviously the whitish color your seeing is corosion build up from the coolant baking to the side of the block, i would recommend cleaning the area with an anti corrosive, rust busting agent. who knows it could've leaked before you purchased it an have already been fixed but no one ever took the time to clean off the corrosion. once you clean it off good you'll be able to see if A.) it's still leaking & b.) how fast its leaking if its just a minor drip just put the headgasket replace off for later on down the road (keeping and eye on coolant levels) when you go through and do a good tune up. if its spraying out pretty badly then you could loose pressure in your water pump which will decrease your engines cooling abilities may not cause overheating but certainly stresses your water pump. doesn't seem like its going to be the worst in the world to deal with i think you'll have some time to fix the gasket at your convience.

edit btw: what your looking at is ... right above the pink sploch is your head assembly, your exhaust manifold is bolted to it (the rusting pipe manifold looking thing bolted to the side of the engine=exhaust manifold). what the pink sploch is well for lack of better words "sploched to" is the main block of your engine which is easily corroded. hope this helps..

 

[gbc]

looks like coolant leaking from your headgasket lol the pink color comes from the color of the toyota antifreeze obviously the whitish color your seeing is corosion build up from the coolant baking to the side of the block, i would recommend cleaning the area with an anti corrosive, rust busting agent. who knows it could've leaked before you purchased it an have already been fixed but no one ever took the time to clean off the corrosion. once you clean it off good you'll be able to see if A.) it's still leaking & b.) how fast its leaking if its just a minor drip just put the headgasket replace off for later on down the road (keeping and eye on coolant levels) when you go through and do a good tune up. if its spraying out pretty badly then you could loose pressure in your water pump which will decrease your engines cooling abilities may not cause overheating but certainly stresses your water pump. doesn't seem like its going to be the worst in the world to deal with i think you'll have some time to fix the gasket at your convience.

edit btw: what your looking at is ... right above the pink sploch is your head assembly, your exhaust manifold is bolted to it (the rusting pipe manifold looking thing bolted to the side of the engine=exhaust manifold). what the pink sploch is well for lack of better words "sploched to" is the main block of your engine which is easily corroded. hope this helps..

I bought the vehicle 2 years ago and never noticed a leak in my entrance, but that doesn't mean its not leaking right! :S

Could this leak have any relation to gas mileage by any chance? or is it just the price inflation thats getting to me? lol

Thx

 

[Sungod]

I wonder how many of these have to happen before Toyota admits there is a problem?

 

[Sungod]

I bought the vehicle 2 years ago and never noticed a leak in my entrance, but that doesn't mean its not leaking right! :S

Could this leak have any relation to gas mileage by any chance? or is it just the price inflation thats getting to me? lol

Thx

It could if your leak is more than an external coolant leak, but you would need some testing to find out. Coolant or oil leaking into the combustion chamber could cause performance issue as well as loss of compression. That link that Mike posted goes into great detail about how it works. In a best case scenario only coolant is leaking outside which of the potential scenarios, that is probably the best case. You are looking at a fairly expensive fix and that is if the block and heads are within tolerance.

 

[aha2988]

IMO get a compression test to ensure your only leaking to the outside of the engine. and that its only coolant and not compression leaking to. sungod is right again the headgasket replacement is expensive the only way your heads and block wouldnt be in spec (and he's talking warpness spec) is if you've overheated severly. So your heads are most likely in spec again IMO. go to a local mechanic shop and ask for a compression or leak down test on all your cylinders shouldnt cost to much and it'll give you piece of mind. report back with the compression test readings and we can troubleshoot from there.

 

[gbc]

I took my truck to a local garage and had a compression test done.
He cleaned up that pink crust of as much as he could and told me to keep an eye on the levels....

I suppose this is somewhat positive news, still not sure if the head gasket got repaired previously and they forgot to clean up the antifreeze or it's leaking very slowly.....If the compression test came out good does that mean everything in there is in good shape?

1:170
2:170
3:170
4:170
5:165
6:175

 

[Sungod]

As long as you are not getting oil in your coolant or coolant in your oil, you should be ok as long as you can live with the leak if there is one. We probably should have suggested a pressure test on the cooling system. That would give you an idea if there is a leak. Blame Aha for skipping that one. With good compression numbers you can probably play the wait and see game. The coolant is not hard to miss.

 

[gbc]

I also changed my spark plugs and when he checked the old ones he made the assumption that there is no coolant in the oil.....makes sense?

 

[aha2988]

I also changed my spark plugs and when he checked the old ones he made the assumption that there is no coolant in the oil.....makes sense?

yeah yeah all my fault sungod :flipoff: lol

if the plugs checked out and the compression checked out, your certainly in good shape. keep an eye on the coolant levels, and system over all sungod doesnt have a bad thought about checking the pressure of the cooling system but if you can't see anything spraying out of the side of the block profusely and your coolant levels arn't droping dramaticly on a daily basis I'd say your safe for now. like i said befor though if it is leaking for the better of the vehicle replace the head gasket for good measure at your convience take advantage of this early warning sign and head gasket issue notice. They offer a haynes manual at parts stores that will give you step by step instructions for a complete overhaul (tare down and rebuild) of your engine so if your feeling froggy you might save yourself some money and replace the gasket yourself just plan on taking your time and dont expect to be able to rush through it, or take it to someone and have them do it either way i think your in good shape and happy for ya that atleast you got all your cards on the table now just what/when to do with em lol.