Brake bleeding after tundra brake upgrade

[Cadaverous]

I installed new tundra brake calipers two days ago on my 2000 3rd gen limited and attempted to bleed the brakes but I am not having much luck.

I installed the tundra brake calipers, then with a helper started in the passenger rear and bleed the rear, then the front. Going farthest to closest to the master. I bled by attaching tubing to the nipple, opening the nipple, having my brother press down on the brake pedal. Before he reached the bottom I would close the nipple. I made sure the hose was above the nipple so that no air could go backwards into the system. I also made sure that I closed them before he lifted his foot off the brake. We spent about 2 hours doing this and cycled about 1.4 liters of brake fluid through the truck. The brakes still were very mushy and didn't work pretty much at all.

Today I purchased a MityVac as I have used one in the past with great success, and made it so I didn't require a helper.

I started again today in the back and worked my way toward the master. I went all the way around and did another .6L of fluid.

There doesn't seem to be any difference in the brakes. I press the pedal and it goes right to the floor. Press it a few more times and it starts to pump up. I think that I've got all the air out and turn on the truck and the brake pedal goes right to the floor and doesn't pump up.

I've never had such an issue with brakes. Normally they bleed no problem with the friend method. I don't know if it's the ABS or what. I would be really surprised if my master went out. It was working fine before I changed the calipers and I haven't let the fluid get below the low level.

I know this is beat to death, but I've spent about 6 hours bleeding and that's crazy. It shouldn't take more than 30 or 40 minutes.

Any help or pointers would be great.

 

[So Many Roads]

After I did the TB upgrade, the pedal didn't go all the way to the floor, but there was more travel and less braking power than there should have been. My issue - there wasn't an airtight seal between the bleeder screw and the reman calipers. Loctite 545 thread sealant on the bleed screws solved the problem. Now perfect braking.

Edit - Use Thread sealant, like Loctite 545. It is a different product than thread locker (blue loctite). Then re-bleed the brakes. This keeps air from entering the system through the bleeder screw threads. Also adjust your rear brakes as discussed below.

 

[Cadaverous]

After I did the TB upgrade, the pedal didn't go all the way to the floor, but there was more travel and less braking power than there should have been. My issue - there wasn't an airtight seal between the bleeder screw and the reman calipers. Loctite 545 thread sealant on the bleed screws solved the problem. Now perfect braking.

I thought this might be the case. I got some Teflon tape and taped all the screws and re-bled. Seems like I got a lot more air out. I think that I didn't get it all though. It's cold as balls. I'm going to go try again here in a bit when my hands warm up.

 

[JayRolla]

Your keeping the car turned over so the brake pump is pumping right? Does the 2000 have power assisted brake booster?

 

[LittleCaesar]

Any bubbles at the bleeders? MC run dry?

Try bleeding the brakes with the 4runner running in park.

If still no go, then try and activate the ABS on a dirt road or gravel. Then bleed them again. Pull the ABS fuse if nothing else works and bleed them again.

 

[3bears]

Your keeping the car turned over so the brake pump is pumping right? Does the 2000 have power assisted brake booster?

yes my 2000 has power brakes,
Ill be doing the tbu in april, so I'm watching all these threads, esp when it has a 2000 in it.

 

[cahaight]

I as well have had a soft pedal after the TBU, have lived with it for over a year now,curious about loctite on the bleeders,if they are not sealing wouldn't you have brake fluid leaking?

 

[00Spork]

Just went through this issue too man. So frustrating.

On top of what everyone else has said, make sure your rear brakes are adjusted nice and snug. For some reason it matters, good luck!

FWIW I also had to cycle the ABS, and bleed immediately after... I did it about 3-4 times and that helped. Luckily there was snow on the ground, made it much easier to cycle the ABS.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

LocTite on the threads sounds like a disaster.
1) The bleeder is supposed to seal on the flare, not the threads.
2) Those 10mm bleeders are easy enough to round-off, I can't imagine trying to break it loose with LocTite. I wonder why the flare seat wasn't sealing, causing the need for thread-locker/sealant.
I was recently wondering about the piston size of the 213 calipers vs the 199. Porsche and large Brembo calipers are popular swaps for VW's, but the MC piston is undersized for those bigger brakes, causing a squishy pedal that travels too far. I don't think it's a big enough difference to worry about with the TBU, but I would be curious if a Tundra MC has a bigger bore. And if so, if it's something that could be swapped onto our 3G.
I'm sure I'm over-thinking it, but this isn't the first issue I've heard about pedal feel with the TBU.

 

[TXRick]

I'm going through the same situation. Over a year now...

Some progress...
I bled the lines from the MC to the ABC pump and adjusted rear brakes some more. Both helped a little.

New MC, yes it's primed, bled a boatload, mityvac...replaced brake booster with junk yard booster. Seemed to work a min...


Mines a 96 so a little different but

When the engine is off my pedal is stiff but when it's on, it gets very smooshy...too smoothly to pass inspection as it turns out. Is that a sign of failed brake booster?

 

[TXLX1]

I bought my truck with the upgrade already done and I immediately noticed the pedal felt like it had too much travel to the floor. I bled the system and then adjusted the pedal at the pedal. Felt much better. I'd say the pedal doesn't feel progressive compared to some of my other cars, more depress and then sudden grab. But I'm used to it now and can brake smoothly and safely.

 

[So Many Roads]

LocTite on the threads sounds like a disaster.

Thread sealant and thread locker are two very different products. Not interchangeable. Thread sealant prevents air from entering the system while bleeding, and is especially important if you are using a mityvac or speed bleeders.

 

[TXRick]

My problem with the mightyvac was getting a good seal. I was constantly getting bubbles but finally realized they were from the bad seal. I used some hose clamps and that worked better.

 

[Cadaverous]

Thanks for all the advice guys.


First off I realized I mounted the calipers on the wrong sides like an idiot. So of course I couldn't get them bled. I swapped them this morning, now that the bleeder nipple is pointing up I think I've made some progress.

I am getting big consistent bubbles from the mityvac. I think these are from the vac not sealing all the way. Maybe I need to use some more teflon tape on the nipples. They don't feel all that sealed.

The pedal is now firm like it should be when the truck is off.

I don't know if I can cycle the ABS on a dirt road as the brakes weren't strong enough the other day to even stop the truck when I tested the brakes.


I also tried bleeding the brakes with the gravity method, with the car on; where the hose attached to the nipple leads up to a catch can, so that air can't re-enter the system when you press the brake an release. Seemed I got a little more air out this way but with the car on the pedal still sinks to the floor.


:lookout:

I've never ridden the struggle bus so long before.

 

[AZBub]

I never had so much trouble with brakes before. I had posted a similar problem. for me it was partially that the brake pads I was sold were not the right ones, they fit, but we're not right (made a little difference in braking). Mechanic had to cycle the ABS. Mine did not have the power booster which I think is a 2001-2002 item. Brakes are still a little soft but getting better as I drive. Seated pads to new rotors. Engaged ABS several times on dirt road.

My mechanic suggested manual bleed( having someone pump pedal) after all new parts installed. I asked about the booster going bad but my mechanic suggested pulling the vacuum line to it and seeing if there is a difference. Mine was same either way.

Long story short. Drive it. Manually bleed(no vacuum) in a couple of days.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JayRolla]

I'm going through the same situation. Over a year now...

Some progress...
I bled the lines from the MC to the ABC pump and adjusted rear brakes some more. Both helped a little.

New MC, yes it's primed, bled a boatload, mityvac...replaced brake booster with junk yard booster. Seemed to work a min...


Mines a 96 so a little different but

When the engine is off my pedal is stiff but when it's on, it gets very smooshy...too smoothly to pass inspection as it turns out. Is that a sign of failed brake booster?

Put it in 4x4 lo. Go 10mph and try to hard stop. If it doesn't stop brake booster could be failing as long as you have no leaks or air in the system.

Also of anyone is using any type of bleeder system remove it and do it manually. My TBU is solid and no pedal issues.

Put hose on bleeder and other end new fluid. Have someone push the pedal while bleeder is tight then loosen bleeder. It will force the air out. Tighten bleeder and lift pedal.

 

[Cadaverous]

I got the brakes to the point where I can now drive and now die. However they are less than confidence inspiring.

I don't really have any dirt roads close by. I will try and get out and get the ABS to cycle, then bleed with a friend.

 

[Twan]

I've used this for 3 different TBU and a few other vehicles and have yet to hear a complaint about it. With the 231s on my DD, I have zero problems with pedal pressure and the ABS engages as it should.

 

[Guyver192]

I did my 231 TBU upgrade last year. I Had the same exact problem. Found that the rear brakes need to be adjusted snug as mentioned earlier in the post. The other problem is a tight seal at the bleeder screw. I have a 1998 by the way.
Try this method

1. Use regular wheel bearing grease around the threads of the bleeder screw's with the screws backed off 1 full turn. it works the same as telfon tape but with out actually causing any issues from repeated open and closing while bleeding the brakes.
2. Gravity bleed the brakes if you have the time and know how. make sure you have fluid flowing out of all 4 bleeder screws. You would believe the problems you an find just by performing this task. ( collapsed lines front or rear or both).
As a side note dont get overly crazy with the grease. you just need to cover the threads all the way around to create a seal. using a q tip works the best.

3. After bleeding the brakes clean off the grease with brake parts cleaner.

4. At this point you should have a better pedal if you dont have any MC or BB issues. Also try an ABS stop before bleeding.

 

[TXRick]

2. Gravity bleed the brakes if you have the time and know how. make sure you have fluid flowing out of all 4 bleeder screws. You would believe the problems you an find just by performing this task.

Hook tubes up to all 4 and let them drip?