Brake Line Question (StopTech Stainless)

[PhotoNerd]

Greetings,
So two weekends ago I had a brake line snap on me (passenger side front). I fixed it, but I decided to order the stainless lines as I'd rather have something with flexible rather than rigid up front.

My question is this: I ordered the part number 950.44007 which is the kit for my vehicle, but the problem I noticed is that the lines are threaded on both ends with female fittings and don't have the banjo bolt fittings. I know our calipers thread in, so I don't really see how this would work. The part number on the package is correct, but all of the photos show a banjo fitting (which could be a generic stock photo).

What am I missing here?

 

[Kryptoroxx]

It's not to replace the hard line but the rubber line before the hard line. You could replace the hard line but it might have to be a custom line.

BTW I got the same kit and had to look at it twice lol.

 

[PhotoNerd]

Well crap; thanks for the info. That's dumb...in my opinion. When it said front my thought was to the caliper. I have StopTech lines on my Audi and that's how it is on there (out of the caliper).

 

[kolelt]

I have the same lines in the package waiting to be installed. It's interesting

 

[PhotoNerd]

So does anyone know of a kit that is a stainless line out of the caliper? What about the Goodridge stuff or is that the same deal?

 

[kolelt]

Well, does the hardline travel with the wheels as in stays in one place and only the other rubber part gets stretched. If so that it makes perfect sense.

 

[PhotoNerd]

It does, but doesn't make sense. See, what happened in my situation was that (unbeknownst to me) the mount on the spindle that holds the bracket in place is broken, as in part of it is missing; this meant the bracket was on the spindle, but not properly fastened, therefore while I was offroading it managed to rattle itself off which resulted in the line bouncing around and eventually sheering itself completely off from the caliper.

Now, had that been a stainless line, this would not have happened because the stainless line would have been able to withstand those stresses.

I understand fixing the bracket could address the problem, but for the peace of mind I would feel much more secure with a stainless line installed. Plus, they are better for performance (hence why I use them with my 6-piston Brembos on my Audi).

And trust me, I consulted my engineer buddy in the repair process and when I said "hardlines into the caliper" his response was, "well there's your problem; that's a stupid design." I can't argue and I don't disagree.

 

[Kryptoroxx]

I suppose it could be a design flaw. It wouldn't be hard to have some made up for you either. There's the hose shop here that has been recommended to me for custom lines. No idea on the pocketbook damage that would cause though. They have a website

http://www.thehoseshop.com

Hope this helps. I do not know of a kit that offers what you are looking for though and I have been looking.

I am gathering parts for a rear disc conversion. Exhausting process but hopefully it is worth it.

 

[kolelt]

Coulsd he design flaw... Has anyone found a replacement for those hard lines ??

 

[ARC]

I understand fixing the bracket could address the problem, but for the peace of mind I would feel much more secure with a stainless line installed. Plus, they are better for performance (hence why I use them with my 6-piston Brembos on my Audi).

And trust me, I consulted my engineer buddy in the repair process and when I said "hardlines into the caliper" his response was, "well there's your problem; that's a stupid design." I can't argue and I don't disagree.

How could a braided stainless line out perform a hard line? I don't get it...

 

[Nelsonmd]

It does, but doesn't make sense. See, what happened in my situation was that (unbeknownst to me) the mount on the spindle that holds the bracket in place is broken, as in part of it is missing; this meant the bracket was on the spindle, but not properly fastened, therefore while I was offroading it managed to rattle itself off which resulted in the line bouncing around and eventually sheering itself completely off from the caliper.

Now, had that been a stainless line, this would not have happened because the stainless line would have been able to withstand those stresses.

I understand fixing the bracket could address the problem, but for the peace of mind I would feel much more secure with a stainless line installed. Plus, they are better for performance (hence why I use them with my 6-piston Brembos on my Audi).

And trust me, I consulted my engineer buddy in the repair process and when I said "hardlines into the caliper" his response was, "well there's your problem; that's a stupid design." I can't argue and I don't disagree.

Well, here's one engineer that disagrees with your engineer. And I happen to have a bunch of other engineers on my side, namely the ones that designed your car and know craploads more about cars than your engineer friend...

Not to diss him too much, but that is an invalid conclusion from too little information. If a hardline is supported at both ends, then it is fine to travel with the wheel. In fact it is better than a soft line, because the soft line will give and move with every bump, which will stress the point where the flexible line meets the hard threaded end. There is a reason that the soft line in the length and orientation that it is, it's to minimize the stress form the vibration. Make that line longer and you increase the stress.

I also reject your conclusion that a stainless steel line would have been able to withstand those stresses. A stainless steel flex line going all the way to the caliper would have to be supported in exactly the same way as the hard/flex combo that Toyota put in there or it will break even sooner.

If you want peace of mind, go with OEM. I guarantee you that more testing and research has gone into the OEM design and components than any aftermarket brake line. AND there is far more experience with the OEM design than any aftermarket product.

And also, stainless steel is not stronger than the alternative. Most non-stainless steel is stronger than stainless (trust me, we use both in the OEM automotive components I design at work, and stainless is used on a small minority of our products specifically because of its lower strength), and the rubber flex lines are more flexible than stainless lines. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. That being said, I have stainless flex lines on my 4runner, but I still use the stock hard lines and I don't worry a thing about them. The hard lines are properly supported and I have no doubt that they will take me well beyond the lifetime of the rest of the vehicle.

 

[sportsterchop200]

So what did you go with?

I see this is a relatively old thread but this guy sounds smart and I would like to know what brand of brake line he went with if anyone knows or if your still on here Sir. I appreciate any info.

:fishing:

Well, here's one engineer that disagrees with your engineer. And I happen to have a bunch of other engineers on my side, namely the ones that designed your car and know craploads more about cars than your engineer friend...

Not to diss him too much, but that is an invalid conclusion from too little information. If a hardline is supported at both ends, then it is fine to travel with the wheel. In fact it is better than a soft line, because the soft line will give and move with every bump, which will stress the point where the flexible line meets the hard threaded end. There is a reason that the soft line in the length and orientation that it is, it's to minimize the stress form the vibration. Make that line longer and you increase the stress.

I also reject your conclusion that a stainless steel line would have been able to withstand those stresses. A stainless steel flex line going all the way to the caliper would have to be supported in exactly the same way as the hard/flex combo that Toyota put in there or it will break even sooner.

If you want peace of mind, go with OEM. I guarantee you that more testing and research has gone into the OEM design and components than any aftermarket brake line. AND there is far more experience with the OEM design than any aftermarket product.

And also, stainless steel is not stronger than the alternative. Most non-stainless steel is stronger than stainless (trust me, we use both in the OEM automotive components I design at work, and stainless is used on a small minority of our products specifically because of its lower strength), and the rubber flex lines are more flexible than stainless lines. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. That being said, I have stainless flex lines on my 4runner, but I still use the stock hard lines and I don't worry a thing about them. The hard lines are properly supported and I have no doubt that they will take me well beyond the lifetime of the rest of the vehicle.