Brake Options? Downsizing?

[Devbot]

Hi guys
Winter weather is approaching and I'm already well due for new breaks; starting to hit the wear indicator and it sounds like I have a stuck piston on the driver's side. However with my current set up, I found out when installing my lift my brake calipers rub on my wheels and needed grinding down (wheels are 16x8 -4BS, made by Vision). I checked these wheels would fit, going off two websites and two separate reviews on them, of which both said they fit their 3rd gens problem free - but I felt like I recently read somewhere (at the time) the Sport trim has larger/different brake calipers than other trims, and back then assumed this to be true and pretty much attributed it to a misunderstanding on my behalf.
Well now I need to hear for sure, does anybody know this to be true? And if so, is there a photo available to compare the size difference? I would really like to just get a complete set of new rotors+pads+calipers instead of having to mix-n-match since it's easier and often cheaper. To that effect, I'm not trying to downsize horribly (not sure what the difference would even be here)
If this isn't true, then what are some possible options to avoid having to grind again without altering the stance too much? Some small spacers with extended lugs? Are there a slimmer style of aftermarket caliper? Just replace the pads and rotors and fix the caliper? I really enjoy the stance as is and I'm not to keen to throwing on some beefy 1.25 Spidertrax (tires come dead even with the fenders right now), but I can live with something like +0.5"
Any help or recommendations would be appreciated, only done brakes once or twice before. I'm trying to do this somewhat on a budget since I'm hoping to snag new control arms soon; but brakes are certainly more important.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Look at 15" wheel stock 4Runners, they have a different caliper stamped S12WE than much more common 16" wheel 4Runners. You'll also have to replace the rotors and I don't know if they are bolt-on to a 16" hub or not.

Just know that because we have drum brakes in the back, the rotors take on the majority of the stopping force. Shrinking the size of your rotors and pads will only reduce the stopping ability of the already poor brakes. That's why many of us go bigger, not smaller.

 

[biggestmexi]

This is the first post Ive seen regarding the Sports having larger brakes.

Is that true?

 

[Devbot]

Look at 15" wheel stock 4Runners, they have a different caliper stamped S12WE than much more common 16" wheel 4Runners. You'll also have to replace the rotors and I don't know if they are bolt-on to a 16" hub or not.

Just know that because we have drum brakes in the back, the rotors take on the majority of the stopping force. Shrinking the size of your rotors and pads will only reduce the stopping ability of the already poor brakes. That's why many of us go bigger, not smaller.

That must've been what I was thinking of. Really not trying to get small rotors/pads if I don't have to! I plan to add some weight with a tire carrier so I'm thinking small spacers might be the best route

This is the first post Ive seen regarding the Sports having larger brakes.

Is that true?

I believe the above post got it right

 

[dogtail]

Better option upsize wheels instead of decreasing stopping power. I have the big Tundra upgrade brakes, nice having good brakes on my lead sled.

 

[Bikeric]

I guess I'm one of those people that did go down in rotor caliper size so that I could fit 15" wheels. FYI, it also requires removal of the frisbee dust shield.
I initially tried grinding the caliper AND adding 1.25" wheel spacers. I ground too much material from the caliper and had a pressure blowout.
I purchased the new 15" specific rotors, calipers and pads from RockAuto. I did not notice a brake power difference, but that could have been due to the older parts being worn when compared to brand new.
I'm not certain 0.5" bolt on spacers would cover up enough of the stock studs to clear the wheel. I also think a 0.5" flat spacer would reduce your stud/lug thread engagement too much.

 

[phattyduck]

There are two brake 'sizes' on the 3rd gens. Sport package has nothing to do with it. (4th gen Sport package does have larger front discs, which might be where you saw that)

Factory 15" wheel vs 16" wheel is the difference. Don't trust the door sticker, you need the original window sticker or a VIN report from Toyota/a dealer to know. Most 4Runners (especially 4WDs) are 16" wheel trucks.

You can downgrade - but to keep things balanced you would want to also downgrade the rear wheel cylinders (drums and shoes are the same) too. Having run 15" wheel brakes on 32" tires, I'd suggest you avoid it...

With 16" wheels though, you shouldn't need to downgrade. If the wheels are hitting the calipers, get spacers. You won't hit the hoop of the wheel with stock brakes, only the spokes and spacers will fix that right up.

-Charlie

 

[Devbot]

Thanks for the advice, all.

Better option upsize wheels instead of decreasing stopping power. I have the big Tundra upgrade brakes, nice having good brakes on my lead sled.

Not exactly keen on dropping another $600+ on new wheels (plus spare) and $200+ on mounting+alignment a mere couple months after already doing so.

 

[Malcolm99]

Just a thought or possibility, Since the rims where suppose to fit, maybe you have the Tundra brakes already, think the castings are 13WL 13WE s13WE and 13WG for the Tundra? And s13WM for 16" rim 4R's. How long have you owned the truck, maybe the PO did the upgrade, what is the casting number on the caliper out of curiosity.

Edited for other castings

 

[phattyduck]

Thanks for the advice, all.

Not exactly keen on dropping another $600+ on new wheels (plus spare) and $200+ on mounting+alignment a mere couple months after already doing so.

Tundra brakes fit under (some) 16" wheels... Many Tundras came with 16's... And it isn't a diameter thing again, it is a spoke clearance issue near the hub.

-Charlie

 

[Devbot]

The TBU is something I was interested in doing a while back, and since I still very much am, I think what I'm just gonna do for now is replace my rotors+pads and drums+shoes to get me through the winter, then sometime next year I can tackle it again when i have more money and motivation to make the leap.
That being said I have a couple questions:
What rotor size? When you check places like summit they differentiate between 11.xx and 12.xx inches
Ceramic or semi metallic or?
Anybody know of a front and rear package that doesn't have flashy drilled rotors? I hear they warp faster.

 

[jurgenkoppen]

15"rims on 16"2004 Toyota 4Runner

I guess I'm one of those people that did go down in rotor caliper size so that I could fit 15" wheels. FYI, it also requires removal of the frisbee dust shield.
I initially tried grinding the caliper AND adding 1.25" wheel spacers. I ground too much material from the caliper and had a pressure blowout.
I purchased the new 15" specific rotors, calipers and pads from RockAuto. I did not notice a brake power difference, but that could have been due to the older parts being worn when compared to brand new.
I'm not certain 0.5" bolt on spacers would cover up enough of the stock studs to clear the wheel. I also think a 0.5" flat spacer would reduce your stud/lug thread engagement too much.

Hi Eric, thank you for letting us know that it can be done. I am right now in the same boat with my 2005 4Runner. I have the same rims that my son had on his 89 Hilux, and they fit just fine in the rear of my 2005, However, the front did not clear the caliper, and I did the grinding to a point of cutting into the fluid line. Now I am hoping to find a lower profile caliper if there is such a thing in the aftermarket. But if not, I may need to do the rotor and caliper conversion to fit the 15" rims. So you did not have any issues with fitting the 15"caliper mounting bolts in the old 16" front assembly then?

 

[Devbot]

LOL I read the title of this thread and went "that's stupid, who would ever think about downsizing brakes?"
Then I realized it's me ound:

Hi Eric, thank you for letting us know that it can be done. I am right now in the same boat with my 2005 4Runner. I have the same rims that my son had on his 89 Hilux, and they fit just fine in the rear of my 2005, However, the front did not clear the caliper, and I did the grinding to a point of cutting into the fluid line. Now I am hoping to find a lower profile caliper if there is such a thing in the aftermarket. But if not, I may need to do the rotor and caliper conversion to fit the 15" rims. So you did not have any issues with fitting the 15"caliper mounting bolts in the old 16" front assembly then?

You're in the 3rd gen section, not 4th.

 

[brillo_76]

The TBU is something I was interested in doing a while back, and since I still very much am, I think what I'm just gonna do for now is replace my rotors+pads and drums+shoes to get me through the winter, then sometime next year I can tackle it again when i have more money and motivation to make the leap.
That being said I have a couple questions:
What rotor size? When you check places like summit they differentiate between 11.xx and 12.xx inches
Ceramic or semi metallic or?
Anybody know of a front and rear package that doesn't have flashy drilled rotors? I hear they warp faster.

I have had decent luck with the smaller tundra brake upgraded caliper. As its not a large as he longer one. Seems to fit under all my 16 inch aluminum rims. I believe mine are the 13WE calipers ( the Smallest of the TBU Calipers).. As I was just trying to get rid of my rotor warp with the wider rotors this stop it for me. Plus the brake pads are physically the same size as the stock calipers.

I do have one 3rd gen with the 15 inch calipers and wheel cylinders. As well as the rims. That I will most likely swap to the 16 inch wheel cylinders and 13WE calipers.

I run raybestos rotors with element 3 pads. I see lots of folks like to run power stop components. I don't have any experience with them. Its just seems to be a goto for a pile of people.

 

[Devbot]

I have had decent luck with the smaller tundra brake upgraded caliper. As its not a large as he longer one. Seems to fit under all my 16 inch aluminum rims. I believe mine are the 13WE calipers ( the Smallest of the TBU Calipers).. As I was just trying to get rid of my rotor warp with the wider rotors this stop it for me. Plus the brake pads are physically the same size as the stock calipers.

I do have one 3rd gen with the 15 inch calipers and wheel cylinders. As well as the rims. That I will most likely swap to the 16 inch wheel cylinders and 13WE calipers.

I run raybestos rotors with element 3 pads. I see lots of folks like to run power stop components. I don't have any experience with them. Its just seems to be a goto for a pile of people.

Good to hear but I've dropped all desire to do the TBU long ago. Seems like the number of people who had it go well for them are outweighed by people who had endless nightmares with pedal feel by a solid 2:1 ratio, if not more. I'd really not like to go through another multi-week-long headache once again for something I can absolutely live without. I'm already having troubles with pedal feel and throwing in a massive, new variable would just be hellish

 

[brillo_76]

Good to hear but I've dropped all desire to do the TBU long ago. Seems like the number of people who had it go well for them are outweighed by people who had endless nightmares with pedal feel by a solid 2:1 ratio, if not more. I'd really not like to go through another multi-week-long headache once again for something I can absolutely live without. I'm already having troubles with pedal feel and throwing in a massive, new variable would just be hellish

Understandable. If you have issues with warping, you could always change the front wheel bearings and hubs as that will correct the warping issue with stock rotors for a while .

If not, nothing wrong with running stock calipers and rotors. They work well. I just was tired of having warped rotors every 6 months to a year.