Brake problems during SAS

[Brownfaux]

So, I'm nearly done with my sas on my 88. But the brakes are my hold up. Here are the details.

Trail gear extended lines, new hardlines bent and installed my me on each front caliper.

Front calipers from the 88 onto the 84 axle. Bolted right up.

Rear brakes are all stock.

New bleeder screws all around, except LSPV. Ones in it when i got the car, wiggled and didn't have the right taper. Also didn't bleed at half a turn. New ones are coated in loctite and bleed properly at half a turn. Bled with the 2 man method, bottle and jar. Partner said there was a bit of pressure building up while bleeding. Air came out for two or three pumps, then straight fluid.

New master cylinder, (remanufactured). No leaks anywhere that I can see.

Bleeding LR, RR, FR, FL, LSPV.

I don't know what the hell is wrong, pedal still goes to the floor.

Will mis adjusted rear brake shoes cause the pedal to go to the floor? I'm going crazy. This is holding me back from finishing 6 months of work.

 

[Brownfaux]

All I'm seeing is delete the lspv and adjust the rear shoes via the e brake in reverse method

 

[KidVermicious]

FSM says start with the lspv. Then pr, dr, pf, df.

 

[fourwd1]

Yes, if the rears are too loose you won't have much pedal.
Order is correct.

 

[Brownfaux]

The order I listed is correct? I got it off multiple sites and you can tell by looking it's the right order for farthest to closest. With the exception of the lspv.

Although I think I just figured it out. When I added the 88 calipers to the 84 axle I think I put them on upside down. Bleeders are at the bottom. Should be at the top of course.

 

[Hyde802]

Check the calipers. That would definitely do it.

 

[gtgt_bangbang]

I've always bled from nearest to furthest (from master) but I suppose almost any order would do with enough fluid.

Did you bench bleed the master ? Mostly a time saver , but not a reason to slow walk to floor.

I would adjust any drums shoes until the drum barely fit on but spun free when full on.
Even so, slaves should pump up ( perhaps even become over extended) and give a firm pedal at some point, unless they pop apart ...

Is it a slooooow drop to the floor or immediate ?

Do they ever stiffen up under any sequence?

How does the resistance and pedal movement feel when you pressure them, then slightly let off yet maintain some pressure ... the classic leaking-by master test ( bad master not impossible, thank you china) . Unlikely a master would leak by where you can see it quickly except if the lines / threaded fitting were the culprit, it would dribble back from the master cups/ seal out at the booster/master parting line, or even back into the booster which might hold a lot of fluid.

If you work the pedal a lot of times, do you lose fluid level ?

I jsut isntalled a full set of one man bleeders, worked well

 

[Brownfaux]

Check the calipers. That would definitely do it.

Yes. They are upside down. God damn. Didn't register until my dad brought it up this morning.

Due to a little surgery I won't be able to move them for a bit.

However, I did learn how to rebuild u joints. Got my cv driveshaft fully disassembled with my press.

 

[Brownfaux]

Got them flipped today. Now I have a new problem. The bleeder screws are just too long and hit the hi steer steering arms. I cut the end of the bleeder screw off and they fit, but no way to get a hose on them. I suppose I could bleed them anyway, just loosen and tighten before the pedal comes up. Messy though. Anyone have any ideas? 84 axle, trail gear rotors, 88 v6 ifs calipers.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Can you take a photo of the area and post it? I tried looking through my photos and can't see a way for the caliper to be that close to the hi-steer. FYI, '87 ifs truck with trail gear sas kit is what I have, so should be same as yours, except for the original '87 ifs calipers.

I dunno, but it sounds to me like the v6 calipers may not fit properly? Could the steering arms be on the wrong knuckles?

 

[Brownfaux]

Can't see it well with the tire on, but there is barely 1/8 inch of clearance between the bleeder screws and the arms. No way would it have been a good idea to grind away the arms.

Got it all bled today, just made a little
Mess. Great pedal feel now. Test drove it and got the steering straightened out. It's good enough to limp to my new house late at night when no one is on the road. Rear pinion angle must change, still work to be done. But I'm learning, this car WILL be what I want it to be!!

 

[ajohnson]

Your knuckles are on the wrong sides. The calipers should be on the back side

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Wow, I didn't even think that was possible! Yes, you have the knuckles on the wrong side of the axle, about the worst-case scenario for you, as you'll need to almost completely disassemble the axle to correct this one!

:noidea:

For reference, here's some photos of mine:

Don't mind the oil, I need to replace my felt wiper soon...

 

[Brownfaux]

Holy balls. Leave it to me to find a whole new way to ass something up. At least the practice is good. This is how I learn.......

 

[Brownfaux]

I fully expected to be flamed at some point in this journey. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. So, thanks to everyone for being so nice.

If you would like to flame, I've sure earned it. But, I knew jumping into this it would be a rough road.

 

[ajohnson]

Haha, don't sweat it, shit happens.

You do not need to completely disassemble the knuckles. Unbolt the calipers, remove the wiper rings from the back of the knuckles, remove the steering arms, then remove the hub dials and the clip on the end of the axles. You can slide the knuckles off with the hub body and wheel bearings in place. You do not need to unbolt the lower trunnion caps. Keep the trunnion shims in place on each knuckle. This is called the "camo method" for axle disassembly.

 

[ajohnson]

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if that will work^. Since the knuckles are swapping sides, the best thing to do is tear them down and reset the trunnion preload to be safe.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I was just gonna say that!

Yeah, pretty sure you have to set the preload for it to work properly, which is why I said he would have to almost tear it all back down to do it right. Luckily he didn't screw anything up by having it reversed, and he's come this far so might as well do it right so there's no more issues.

Its all good, Brownfox! We all make mistakes, and after you get all this put together correctly, you'll be able to laugh about it! And, more importantly, you'll never EVER do something like that again! I bet you'll even go out of your way to research your next major job on the truck before you touch it too!!!

I know I do, every, single, time! Don't believe me? Read my post on wrapping my steering wheel in the 5th gen section! An all-friggin'-day job just to stitch the thing in! Most of it was from finding videos on how to do the job right! One-hour watching vids on how to do something, 10 minutes actually doing the job!

:rockon:

 

[Brownfaux]

Yeah. I mean I did research to get the basics, but I learn better having something in my hands and by doing. Knowing that, and having plenty of tools, I just jumped into it. I remember putting the knuckles on and it was easy! So surprised those bastards, and the brake calipers can be on wrong yet seem to fit just right.

So yeah. I knew there would be road blocks, but I wanted my hands on it. Plus, with how I plan to wheel it in the future, repetition is good. Trail repairs will be quicker, and I'll have a better working knowledge of how to limp it off the trail of need be......

There is so much info spread out, I really want to do an sas guideline post about all my mess ups and stuff. Lol.