Brake question.

[maddmatt]

Greetings! The wife and I are fairly new 3rd Gen owners. I am stunned as to the build quality and reliability of this SUV, but I am sure I am not telling you anything you don't already know.

The one failing is the brakes completely suck. I have read all about the Tundra upgrade, so I'm up to speed there. The main issue is there's several inches of pedal travel before ANYTHING happens. I have new rotors and new Performance Friction pads, as well as new fluid. I am not used to rear drums so I was wondering if this was normal for drum brakes? Maybe these things are way out of adjustment? 250,000 miles, they are probably original, I should likely replace them.

Questions about the 199mm Tundra upgrade: It looks to me that the rotor is the same diameter, but thicker. The caliper pistons are, if not identical, really close to it. The pads are similar, with Tundra pads having a bit more contact area with a bigger friction puck. A thicker rotor will help fade resistance, so that is certainly helpful for towing. But a thicker rotor doesn't generate more brake torque. With the same sized pistons, the clamping force should be close to the same between the 2 calipers. Are the pads the big difference? I know people rave about how much better they stop with the Tundra brakes, but I wonder how much of that is simply replacing old worn out stuff with new non-worn out stuff, and how much is the increased area of the pad? This thing has 4 piston calipers with a rotor the size (maybe bigger) of a C4 Corvette. It should thrown my head into the dash.

So with all that, the question I have is will 199mm Tundra pads work with the OE 4Runner calipers and rotors? Pad thickness is the same, width is the same. Only issue may be the couple of millimeters in height, but my guess is there's ample room.

Thanks!
Matt

 

[fourharts56]

Read BIGFISHALLDAY post right above yours.

 

[swaycleveland]

The rear drums and self adjuster assembly is responsible for pedal height . Also brake fluid (hydraulic fluid) in general absorbs water, water compresses at a different pressure then th he brake fluid which will give you a soft pedal

 

[maddmatt]

Saw that. But that appears to be the difinitive thread on Tundra 199mm vs. 231mm. Almost 400 posts, does it cover 3rd gen OE as well?

 

[nevada]

yes, it sounds like the rear brakes need replaced and/or adjusted.

 

[nissanh]

When you replace brake pads/shoes, always get the OEM parts from a dealer or online. The extra $$ is very worth in an emergency.

 

[kernel.panik]

Somebody in another thread somewhere (I wish I could find it to thank him) posted a stupid simple way to adjust the rear brakes... pull the ebrake a few dozen times.

I was dreading taking the rear apart to replace my (what I thought was) warn out rear shoes... turned out they were just way out of adjustment. I pumped my ebrake about 50+ times and they work better than they ever have.

 

[Drcoffee]

So with all that, the question I have is will 199mm Tundra pads work with the OE 4Runner calipers and rotors? Pad thickness is the same, width is the same. Only issue may be the couple of millimeters in height, but my guess is there's ample room.

Thanks!
Matt

So my question for you is this. Why would you consider that?

First you need to compare the rotor of the 4runner to the tundra. The rotors on my is300, a vehicle that weights a fraction of the T4r are thicker. The T4r front brakes are the weakest design component second only to the rear axle seals.

Anyone with a 4runner needs to upgrade the front brakes. My truck stops on a dime now and no longer pulse.

Now, your rear brakes may be out of adjustment because the po opened them up to stop them from freezing to the drums. Its a common practice from people to do when the rear axle seals are leaking. Dont be surprised if your seals are leaking when you get into them.

Lastly, the parking brake needs to be used periodically to keep the rears adjusted. People with automatics tender to never use the e brake. Then it rusts up needs to be fixed. One thing I found on my truck was the pivot that balances to left and right drums was seizing. It has poly bushings top and bottom which should allow free movement of the pivot but mine had rusted so much that it was squeezing the bushing. This kept the right side from releasing completely. You can check simply by feeling the wheel hub or for the daring, touch the drum. They should both be the same temp after a normal drive. If they are too hot to touch, they are not releasing.

Now for your situation with 250,000 miles, dont stroke the brake pedal all the way to the floor when bleeding the brakes. You may destroy the seals in the master cyl. But for $300 in parts and an hour or two, you can replace the entire front brakes. Most braking is done with the front brakes. It just makes sense to correct this issue.

 

[maddmatt]

So my question for you is this. Why would you consider that?

Because the Tundra pads (appear to) have a larger friction puck on the plate which, all other things being equal, will develop more torque for a given clamping force.

I understand that a thicker rotor will warp less and have less fade. I'm not having those problems.

 

[kernel.panik]

I think for the cost of doing the 199 calipers, it makes no sense to NOT just do the 231 calipers and trim the dust shield. The 231 calipers have quite a bit more surface area on the pads than the 199s have.

 

[maddmatt]

I think for the cost of doing the 199 calipers, it makes no sense to NOT just do the 231 calipers and trim the dust shield. The 231 calipers have quite a bit more surface area on the pads than the 199s have.

They do, yes. But then I'd have to grind on the OE wheels to get clearance.

 

[Limbwalker]

If the rears are adjusted properly, you should be able to give the truck some gas in reverse and bring it to a stop with the parking brake alone.
Thats all I got, lunch breaks over
Good luck