Buying 4Runner - need pricing help

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Fourunner

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I am looking at a 2004 4Runner SR5 V8 4X4 with various options and a sticker of $33286. I had the dealer fax me the invoice and I've attached it here. They have offered it at $29,400 Out-the-Door, which is basically the quoted dealer price here minus the $1500 Toyota rebate plus $249 doc fee. My questions are:

What are the T.D.A. and M.A.F that they've added? Also, I thought the dealer holdback on MSRP was given them by Toyota and should not be added into the price (as if both Toyota and I are giving it to them??) Also, what is the 1% finance reserve MSRP item? These items total an additional $1747. I was looking at paying a around $28250 Out-the Door including Doc fee. Is this reasonable? Could someone explain these line item add-ons?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

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I only know TDA means Toyota Dealers Association through which your dealer has to paid some fee for local advertisement. I think it is legit for some dealers. Mine was $29,000 without the rebate, but it is V6. So I guess it will be ok with $28,500 which including tax & fee.
 
Check this link: http://www.carbuyingtips.com/car3.htm

Advertising Fees
Usually when you buy through discount sites like from InvoiceDealers, Autoweb, Car.com, Autobytel, CarsDirect, AutoUSA you avoid ad fees. Car makers charge dealers for regional and national advertising campaigns. These charges are reflected on the invoice and are a legitimate cost of doing business. This is where opinions differ, as I feel it's their cost of doing business, not ours. Tell them to pay your fees like gas, wear and tear, and your time for driving all over town to shop for the car. Many dealers are sticklers about this fee, and it's difficult to get them to drop it, but some do waive the fee. If a dealer adds on their own advertising fee above and beyond this, they are out of bounds. Dealers try to charge $250 -$1000, but it should not be more than $250. You're not paying for their inability to find cost effective ads. $1000 ad fees allow the dealer to charge you a lower price on the car. You think you're saving money, but ad fees take it right back. This fee may also show up as "Sales Promotion Fund", or DAA, or ADA, or anything referring to ads. Edmund's says it's non-negotiable, but they are wrong. Anything in life is negotiable, and I don't give up that easily. What angers me the most is the cryptic way that dealers hide this fee from you by using huge acronyms, then playing stupid when you question it. "Duh, I don't know, we always charge this fee". A Nissan Dealer in Chicago told one of our visitors that they have to charge the Nissan advertisement fee and can't drop it or they can face a class action law suit. Nice scam. Where's my bull icon?

Ford dealers use the cryptic term "FDAF/LMDA" on their invoice. "FDAF" stands for "Ford Dealer Advertising Fund", and the "LMDA" stands for Lincoln Mercury Dealer Advertising. Why can't they just disclose it as "ad fee"? I didn't pay an ad fee for my Lexus in 1998 or the Mazda Millenia in 1999. Honda add fees are built into the invoice price, don't let them charge you extra. Other companies choose their own cryptic acronym, like DAA (Dealer Area Advertising), TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising Fee), HDA, you get the picture. If it ends with an "A", it's most likely an advertising fee. Speaking of advertising, dealers are neither grateful nor shy about plastering their name on the trunk of your shiny new car at a cost of $0 to them. You then spend the next several years advertising their dealership free of charge with your moving billboard. You should charge them a $600 advertising fee for that.
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Actually, check out the entire site and use it as a tool to get the best savings you can. I'm no way affiliated to the site, I think its just a great resource to use.

I think that MAF is Manufacturer's Advertising Fee. I'm not positive though. Ask your salesment and look him in the eye while he squirms and explains it to you.

July
 
You then spend the next several years advertising their dealership free of charge with your moving billboard. You should charge them a $600 advertising fee for that.
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That is why I took it off my Ride as soon as I got home.
 
Thanks for the link. That was helpful. So basically, they're trying to charge $825 worth of Ad fees, make me double pay they're holdback of $615, and then pay $307 of interest because they didn't sell the car quick enough, while in the mean time I'm already paying $400+ for Toyoguard, and other worthless add-ons. :rant: These guys are out of their minds. I think it's time to check out some other dealerships. :tongue: I'm thinking that maybe pre-owned might even be the way to go.
 
Not knowing exactly what options that vehicle comes with, I priced the same vehicle with about $1325 worth of options at carsdirect.com and their price is right around $29K - or $750 below invoice. That's for my neck of the woods, your woods may differ.

Anyway, go to carsdirect, price out the car, if it's what you're willing to pay, take the quote to the dealer and ask them to match it.
 
when you guys say 29.5 out the door, we're talking "out the door" as in you dont have any more bills to pay right? i'm ridiculously surprised you can get one for 29.5 out the door. For me to get a 04 4runner sport edition v8 4x4 after like 5 hours of haggling, we got down to 33.5k out the door with the only options as sunroof and spoiler, so about 1k in options. 33.5k out the door meaning car + account california sales tax (8.25%) and licensing (221) + everything.

how is it i'm getting screwed so bad?

jason
 
jasonlee said:
when you guys say 29.5 out the door, we're talking "out the door" as in you dont have any more bills to pay right? i'm ridiculously surprised you can get one for 29.5 out the door. For me to get a 04 4runner sport edition v8 4x4 after like 5 hours of haggling, we got down to 33.5k out the door with the only options as sunroof and spoiler, so about 1k in options. 33.5k out the door meaning car + account california sales tax (8.25%) and licensing (221) + everything.

how is it i'm getting screwed so bad?

jason
Click to expand...

How long have you had yours? I know that they are dealing big time on the '04 models, since the '05 models are starting to hit the lots.

I paid invoice for my '04 Sport (V6) about three weeks ago, but they gave me an over-allowance for my trade-in, so I was pretty happy overall. Plus, the higher value on my trade-in saved me some money in sales tax on the 4Runner.
 
i still dont' have one b/c of this 33.5k want to charge me. I feel like that's a ridiculously number to pay seeing how it's end of year and the 05's will be better.

The only good thing that came out of last weekends visit to the dealers was i got fed up with all of them. Now i dont care about waiting around for an 05 and may even buy it on carsdirect. I dont really care about paying some extra money either for an 05. Paying extra for an 04 i care about.

What do you guys think it'll cost out the door for an 05 sport v8 4x4 in january when it comes out?
 
hey jason,
since you want the v8, i would just wait til january because the 05 has 270hp on the v8 for 05 and the v8 for 04 only has 235hp... i would just wait
 
The price from carsdirect is not including tax or license. I would bet the 29.5 price from the original post doesn't include those either. So it's not an "out the door" price.

BTW, I've used carsdirect as a negotiating tool. I don't think, however, I would buy from them. I want to see EXACTLY what I'm buying before I buy. I don't want to be told I'm buying a car with 20 miles on the odometer when I go to pick it up. Or where something else is slightly off from what I'm expecting. The good news though is there's usually a dealer around that will give you the car for the carsdirect price because they know you are able to get that price from someone else.
 
The 29.5 is out-the-door, but does not include TT&L, which in Oklahoma is paid within 30 days, not at the Point of sale. Also, our taxes are comparitively low - it will be about $1000 total for TT&L. I still think it's a bit much for a model on it's way out.

Question - which '05 models have the chrome grill and which do not? I'm thinking of just waiting for '05, but do not want the Chrome grill...
 
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