Can anyone please help me with front brake shudder/shimmy problems??? OMG

[lfisherking]

Can anyone help me?? I have a 3Rd Gen 96 4Runner Limited 4X4 with 16” Wheels. When I hit the brakes at any speed over 25 I get a very annoying pulsation/vibration/shimmy/shudder. I’m climbing the walls here fellas. Here’s what I have attempted so far.

Tested the rear brakes by using my e brake (smooth as silk)
Front End Alignment (it's money)
Balanced and rotated all my tires. (rides smooth as silk, even at 110mph)
Torqued Lug Nuts evenly to 82ft lbs (off the ground)
Replaced all my bushings (Steering Rack & Pinion, Sway bar, and Sway bar Controller)
Turned my existing rotors/ new pads. (no change)
Bought new “lifetime” pads and shoes at Brake Masters (no change)
Upgraded to high quality drilled and slotted rotors with all new pads (no change)
Upgraded to Tundra Calipers, EBC pads and Brembo Rotors (made it even worse)
Bedding the brakes (60mph to 10mph hard braking, repeat 5 times) (No change)

Weird thing is, my first couple of braking instances in the morning, there is no shuddering, and also right after a car wash, my first couple of braking, no shudder. The rest of the time it’s always there, like an annoying scratch on the roof of your mouth that would heal if you could only stop tonguing it. (sorry.. Fight Club quote). Is it a temperature thing? Is my hubs and bearings the last straw? I’m scared of failure at this point. Has anybody truly fixed this problem once and for all??

I’m willing to try anything… Even if it’s blowing up a Barbie doll with firecrackers!!

Somebody, Anybody, Please Reply

Sincerely

Frustrated Incorporated

 

[KidVermicious]

Do you feel the shudder in the steering wheel? In the brake pedal?

 

[vincer77]

Wow. You sure are serious about solving this.

Are you completely stock?

Only thing left seems like ball joints.

 

[shadow247]

Wow. You sure are serious about solving this.

Are you completely stock?

Only thing left seems like ball joints.

Check these next.

 

[stevec5000]

There are really only a few things that can cause that, loose/out of balance wheels, warped rotors, loose suspension or driveline components, brake pads that are sticking and releasing rapidly (I've never actually heard of that one but I guess it's possible) and ABS problems. Since you have replaced everything else I'd look into the ABS. Also, have you checked the driveline and U-joints?

 

[Skidmarcx]

Using the parking brake to test your theory doesn't exactly eliminate the rear drums from the equation... they can be warped

 

[1985taylor1925]

This was already asked . . . but do you feel it in the steering wheel? Im guessing you do, which would fairly certainly eliminated the rear drums.

If you feel the vibrations only under braking, then you can eliminate

-bent wheel
-tires out of balance
-driveshaft/u joints
-hub/bearings

as all of these will produce a consistant pulsating vibration.

The thing about ball joints, or any other front end suspension/linkage components (upper/lower ball joints, inner/outter tie rods, steering rack, rack buishings, sway bars, shocks/coils) is that when worn out they may increase the severity of the vibration, but theyre not the root cause. The cause of a consistant vibration is always a spinning part. Theoretically every component in your front end linkage could be loose, but if all the spinning parts were perfectly balanced, you wouldnt get a pulsating vibration.

I know you dont want to hear this, but it still sounds like the rotors, or calapers. Perhaps the bracket the calipers mount to are bent or damaged, or the calapers themselves are bent, or were imporperly installed, which is warping the rotors. something along these lines?

Edit: Im not assuming you are ignorant by any means, but definately be sure all of your lug nuts are symetrically tight. That can surely be a cause

 

[JWaldz]

ball joints, tie rods, and wheel bearings can cause a shimmy or vibration when breaking. Jack your front tires off the ground. Grab a tire with both hands one each on the sides and shake side to side. If it's a lot of play, then you have bad inner tie rod most likely. Grab the tire with both hands one on top, one on bottom and shake up and down. There should be no play. If there is, then you have a bearing going out. It may not be the problem but at least your weeding out different solutions.

 

[Diagram14]

Dr. Coffee says all rotors come warped from the factory. Maybe he is right in this case...


Sorry, couldnt help myself.

 

[Buckaroo]

The pulsing & steering wheel shaking when brakes are applied at highway speeds really sounds like warped front rotors. You say you had them turned. Did they stay above minimum thickness? It's stamped on the rotor. A thin rotor can warp again easily. Rotors are very thin to begin with these days and often can't be machined.

The 3rd gen T4R is prone to rotor warping. Mine were warped and I replaced them with new NAPA standard rotors and they warped again in less than a year. Returned under warranty and bought Brembo's which have been good for 6 mos so far.

Also, when you mount the rotor on the hub, you need to make sure that the mating surfaces where the rotor mounts on the wheel hub are clean. Any spot crud or corrosion can cause misalignment and the rotor will not spin true which could feel like they are warped. Take some abrasive discs or sandpaper and clean these mating surfaces.

Edit - just looked back and saw you had changed the rotors - sorry I did not see it before - ignore the machining comments.....the comment on the wheel hub front surface cleaning is still relevant......

Good Luck.

 

[lfisherking]

Thanks for the help

WOW! I’m overwhelmed and grateful for all the responses and advice. Thank you all so much for taking the time to help out a fellow Runner man.

I’m sorry, I did fail to mention that I had thoroughly checked out the suspension, (Ball joints rods, bushings, and everything is “tip top shape” and has been describes as “like new” according to the mechanics at a local Toyota Master Imports shop).

I had all the rims checked out for trueness, and they are all money, and balanced to perfection.
I rotated every tire multiple times.
I sanded the hubs and the insides of my rims for a true fit.
I torqued my lug nuts off the ground in a star pattern (25, 50, 84 ft lbs)
I disabled the ABS (I recommend that to anybody whom owns a 3rdgen Runner, WOW what a difference in my breaking… I love oldschool braking control)
I’m thinking of either A: finding a place that will turn the rotors attached to the hub, or B: Replacing the hubs and bearings.

Is it possible that every single new rotor is warped out of the box? Or is it possible I warp them the first instant I touch the brakes? I drive this thing like a grandma for effing sake.

I will definitely report out my findings and share my learning’s, in hopes to save someone the hassle/ time and money in the future.

I am opened to more input in the meantime, as I ordered a 35MM socket for the hub, and it won’t arrive till the weekend, so I have some time for more ideas.

Again, thank you so much for the great advice and input.

 

[lfisherking]

Brake Issues Resolved

OK, well I’ll be an SOB, I have a bit of advice for everyone out there that is dealing with brake issues. I don’t care what brand, what style, where you bought them, or how much money you spent on new rotors, GET THEM TURNED BEFORE YOU INSTALL THEM!!! Most places will turn them for free when you purchase them from their store. My 96 4Runner Limited brakes like champ and feels like a million bucks again.

Thanks for all the advice and input.

Lance

 

[sooner02r1]

I just always buy new rotors, I'd do some new brembo blanks and go from there. Balljoints next, might as well do tie rods while you're at it. Get aligned after that part.

 

[Jungoes]

I went through the similar situation.. I hate the term warped.. i did a dial gauge run out on the last two set of stock size rotors, what i found was that the visible brake pad imprints on the rotor had a raised area of 0.002 to 0.006 in some spots. I will get the photos and post up.

I went through 2 sets of rotors and pads in 5 years with just 30,000km.

I eventually did the tundra brake upgrade with the cross drilled and slotted rotors, braking performance increase was immediate. And the vibration came back after about 10,000km of use.

I have inspected the ball joints and there is no play. I now only get the front brake shudder but its not as bad as the stock ones, the stock ones would give a definite vibe throughout the whole vehicle, with the TBU its a much smaller amplitude of vibration but its there,,,, and i only get it when braking while going downhill.

I'm still running stock shocks ( from factory) so maybe next year when i change them i will see if it has any effect.

I've learned to live with it but adjusting how i brake and just enjoy the ride.