Can’t Make Sharp Turns in 4H drive

Lexington

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Hi All

I bought my 4Runner less than a year ago. Before that I owned a Isuzu Trooper. With the Trooper in 4H drive the vehicle turned normally and in 4L you could not make sharp left or right turns which I understand. But with the 4Runner in 4H drive I cannot make sharp turns. So I wonder why I could in the Trooper but not the 4Runner. Is there a option with the 4Runner to be able to turn normally in 4H drive?

Thanks
 
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To turn sharp one must be in 2wd mode... trying to turn sharp esp on dry pavement is causing binding in the 4wd stystem and will lead to issues down the road...
 
To turn sharp one must be in 2wd mode... trying to turn sharp esp on dry pavement is causing binding in the 4wd stystem and will lead to issues down the road...

Yes I understand that. I’m just trying to understand why I never had that issue with the Trooper. Why the Trooper never binded in 4H. Trying to understand the difference. It seems with the Trooper 4H was more like AWD instead of 4WD.
 
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In 4hi the front differential turns wheels at the same speed causing the turn radius to be greater. So if you have to make real tight turns put it in 2wd.
 
I did a quick googling of the trooper system. Looks like they have a system they call “torque-on-demand” which acts like a variable AWD system which can be ran on pavement. The 4low option locks the center to make it a real 4x4. This is similar to the 4runner limited system. This would explain the difference you experienced.
 
I believe it has to do with the toy having 4lo/4hi system and trooper is all wheel drive possibly
Mike :whipping2
 
Yes I understand that. I’m just trying to understand why I never had that issue with the Trooper. Why the Trooper never binded in 4H. Trying to understand the difference. It seems with the Trooper 4H was more like AWD instead of 4WD.

If your Isuzu had all wheel drive then it had a center differential and not a transfer case. In the 5th Gen 4runner the transfer case spins all 4 wheels at the same speed causing it to bind. limited 4runners have a differential and a transfer case for full time all wheel drive and 4lo that locks the center transfer case.
 
Thanks Spartacus and Cndnmax. That helps a lot. I understand now. So the Trooper 4H was basically a AWD instead of a 4WD

So the next question is why did Toyota go this route with the 4Runner? What advantage does a 4WD have over a AWD system? When all wheels spin at the same time it offers better off-road traction?
 
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Thanks Spartacus and Cndnmax. That helps a lot. I understand now. So the Trooper 4H was basically a AWD instead of a 4WD

So the next question is why did Toyota go this route with the 4Runner? What advantage does a 4WD have over a AWD system? When all wheels spin at the same time it offers better off-road traction?

There are many pros/cons for both systems. search youtube for a better explanation but AWD has the potential of turning into a 1 wheel drive system if let’s say one wheel is off the ground. 4WD locks a front wheel and back wheel together so it takes two wheels to lose traction before you stop moving. Rear lock dif with 4WD locks 3 wheels together, dual dif locks and 4WD locks 4 wheels together.

More sophisticated awd systems will allow power to be transferred back, looks for a video comparing Subaru AWD with other brands to see just how horrible some systems can be.
 
Thanks Spartacus and Cndnmax. That helps a lot. I understand now. So the Trooper 4H was basically a AWD instead of a 4WD

So the next question is why did Toyota go this route with the 4Runner? What advantage does a 4WD have over a AWD system? When all wheels spin at the same time it offers better off-road traction?

In 4wd, the front and rear shafts spin at the same speed, not all 4 wheels. Each wheel on the axle can move at different speeds though. Thats why a locker which causes both wheels on the axle to spin at the same speed helps in rough spots
 
There are many pros/cons for both systems. search youtube for a better explanation but AWD has the potential of turning into a 1 wheel drive system if let’s say one wheel is off the ground. 4WD locks a front wheel and back wheel together so it takes two wheels to lose traction before you stop moving. Rear lock dif with 4WD locks 3 wheels together, dual dif locks and 4WD locks 4 wheels together.

More sophisticated awd systems will allow power to be transferred back, looks for a video comparing Subaru AWD with other brands to see just how horrible some systems can be.

Thanks Cndnmax. Very helpful. I’ve owned a Trooper for the last 25 years. The 4Runner is a slightly different beast but I’m very happy with it. Still learning new things and trying to get to know my vehicle better. By the way, my wife has had a Subaru for the last 20. So I’m very familiar with their AWD. Thanks again for your help.
 
So the next question is why did Toyota go this route with the 4Runner? What advantage does a 4WD have over a AWD system? When all wheels spin at the same time it offers better off-road traction?

They do make a 4Runner in that flavor. It's called a limited. Has AWD + locking center diff and transfer case

A 2WD option seems a bit more fuel efficient, maybe cheaper to make :noidea:
 
They do make a 4Runner in that flavor. It's called a limited. Has AWD + locking center diff and transfer case

A 2WD option seems a bit more fuel efficient, maybe cheaper to make :noidea:

The only problem with that is they don’t make it in Quicksand.
 
Thanks Spartacus and Cndnmax. That helps a lot. I understand now. So the Trooper 4H was basically a AWD instead of a 4WD

So the next question is why did Toyota go this route with the 4Runner? What advantage does a 4WD have over a AWD system? When all wheels spin at the same time it offers better off-road traction?

The 4Runner system, which is the same traditional system used in the Wrangler, enhanced with modern technologies in both cases, combines terrific capability in rock and very eroded terrain with robustness and lower price.

The wheels do not spin the same. That would imply two lockers. MTS-Rock is almost as good as a locker minus the pitfalls of a front locker but it is still not a locker.

There are many pros/cons for both systems. search youtube for a better explanation but AWD has the potential of turning into a 1 wheel drive system if let’s say one wheel is off the ground. 4WD locks a front wheel and back wheel together so it takes two wheels to lose traction before you stop moving. Rear lock dif with 4WD locks 3 wheels together, dual dif locks and 4WD locks 4 wheels together.

More sophisticated awd systems will allow power to be transferred back, looks for a video comparing Subaru AWD with other brands to see just how horrible some systems can be.

Yes, most AWD systems are marketing tools. Subarus after 2009 and a few before that have no issues with traction transfer anywhere their clearance and angles allows them to go. Few have done more than I have in an Outback.

BUT, the 4R is a tank and a Subaru is most definitely a dirt/sand/reasonable mud specialist or "softroader". It takes finesse to accomplish anything in any size rocks in a Subie whereas in the 4R you feel that the body will tear apart if needed but the frame with the seats and the steering wheel will get wherever! There is no comparison in rock especially steps and ledges, even if you size them proportionately for the vehicle's angles. The 4R will go through the highest ledge it can clear WAY easier than the Subaru will go over the tiniest of ledges.

But until you upgrade your suspension, a Subaru with a half-decent driver will run circles around the 4R on dirt roads and many easy trails. Now that I have 6112s with 650 springs and Icon rear shocks I finally don't miss my Outback even on dirt roads.

Maneuverability on tight mountain switchbacks was an issue for me the first few months with the 4R. It definitely gets used to having an atrocious turning radius. It is rarely a thing but when it is, it really is.

It had not occurred to me to get in 2wd when descending tight switchbacks...

In 4wd, the front and rear shafts spin at the same speed, not all 4 wheels. Each wheel on the axle can move at different speeds though. Thats why a locker which causes both wheels on the axle to spin at the same speed helps in rough spots

^ this

They do make a 4Runner in that flavor. It's called a limited. Has AWD + locking center diff and transfer case

A 2WD option seems a bit more fuel efficient, maybe cheaper to make :noidea:

^ and this.
 
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Thanks for the great info MAST4R. I do have the 6112 kit with 650 springs. Don’t have the Icons yet.

I will admit that the AWD + locking center diff and transfer case the Trooper had was much more convenient to use in snow and heavy rain but I don’t plan on getting rid of my TRD Pro. It’s just way too cool.
 
Maneuverability on tight mountain switchbacks was an issue for me the first few months with the 4R. It definitely gets used to having an atrocious turning radius. It is rarely a thing but when it is, it really is.

It had not occurred to me to get in 2wd when descending tight switchbacks...

Would be awesome if we could have that one tech feature the LC-200s have where it applies the brakes on the inner rear while turning in 4WD. Looks neat!
 
Did a small test over the weekend to understand the different traction modes on my 2WD 4R. Sloggy wet mud, water puddling in the ruts. 4R in normal mode reached its abilities almost right away. Auto LSD went a little further. All the traction off and some throttle got me out.

Got in my 2010 Subaru Legacy sedan. Same spot. It didn’t slip, no light on dash saying traction control was working, didn’t disable any traction. Stopped in the mud and drove out. Hardly knew the mud was there other than tires being beyond totally caked. Subaru AWD is far far superior than most people give it credit for. Still... I agree it, it is not a crawler or what I would a heavy duty off-road solution. 30mpg ain’t bad for all the time all wheels pushing at any speed. Forester before the legacy and that was an amazing little suv. Not hardly any tow abilities so gotta have the 4R.
 

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