Click no start... After contact rebuild and hot shot relay

[THOR_runner]

code reader isn't necessary for these. the FSM breaks down the way to interpret CELs by watching the number of flashes in a sequence.

i wouldn't start replacing parts until you've verified they need to be replaced. you'll need a volt/ohm/multimeter to do this. get one. it'll be cheaper than throwing money away by replacing perfectly functional parts.

you stated right off that the contacts in the solenoid weren't the problem. did you replace them? did you replace the plunger, or at least clean off the contact surface? within the last 3 months, i've replaced solenoid contacts in my runner (yesterday), and my wife's corolla (same starter series), which solved the intermittent click/no-start on her's, and the sudden manifestation of it in my runner. see the recent posts in my build thread for pictures/details of the contact replacement.

wally

I mentioned in my first post (I guess not very clearly) and the title that the click no start issue was still present even after replacing the contacts/ plunger and adding the hot shot. I try not to be one of those people that post without first digging around.

Thanks Kid, I'll hit those grounds and check out 4crawlers site. I know I've seen it many times.

Any idea if that last pic is the body to motor ground?

 

[THOR_runner]

CEL is solid and doesn't flash. Also goes away by coasting.

 

[KidVermicious]

Any idea if that last pic is the body to motor ground?

It WAS the body to motor ground, yeah.

On both of my 22RE trucks, that strap has run from the firewall to the bolt on the rear hoist hook, also in your picture.

 

[wallytoo]

CEL is solid and doesn't flash. Also goes away by coasting.

not without reading the FSM it won't. that's why you need to [read the FSM], to find out how to read the codes that are being stored. KidV said it right. a paperclip is used in the process. but if you don't do it, and do it correctly, the CEL won't flash, and as in your case, isn't on all the time.

once you read the FSM, you'll discover that by using the paperclip jumper on the correct terminals in the engine compartment, the CEL will flash a series of times. the number of flashes in each sequence will tell you the trouble code that is stored.


as far as the contacts, lots of people claim to have done something, or think that something was done by a previous owner, so that's why i had asked. because they do wear out, and are easy to replace.

when you turn the key, and get the click, what does your "battery gauge" do? does it drop down somewhat while the key is turned, or does it not drop at all?

also, you mention some missing grounds. i'd really investigate that, and make certain that all of your grounds are shiny clean. one other thing, related to changing the contacts. did you clean (shiny) the bellhousing and starter where they meet?

 

[THOR_runner]

Ha, right. WAS! I'll reconnect that one and the one from the battery to the frame sometime this week. I don't drive it everyday, as I live and work on base.

Wally, thanks for the info on the CEL and figure out the issue. FSM for the 86 seems non existent. I find 85's and 87's. Any one closer to the other?

My truck doesn't have a batt gauge, but if I remember correctly the radio and clock dim/switch off when the key is turned.

Rog on cleaning the starter.

I'll keep y'all updated on the grounds, the FL repair, and the CEL and what affect those have on the click no start and rough running.

 

[wallytoo]

from what i've seen, the '85 is probably the closer manual for your '86.

to check the CEL codes, it's all about jumping the correct terminal in the check engine connector under the hood, and when to turn the ignition to "on" but not "start" after installing the paperclip.

when i had my no-start yesterday, my batt gauge indicator dropped noticeably. the clock always dims on mine when i turn to "start". i figured by the batt drop that the solenoid was getting juice, but wasn't making solid contact (pun) to force the plunger and engage the gear. with good contacts, check those grounds. grounds grounds grounds.

 

[RAD4Runner]

Negative goes to a ground on the engine, but also has a eyelet in the middle of the cable as if it could have grounded somewhere else near the starter, but I couldn't find anywhere else where it might attach to. Positive line goes to starter bolt.

Battery negative should be aslo connected to fender here... Make sure you sand down to bare metal before screwing on ring terminal.

As for the hotshot relay: I'm almost positive I wired it up correctly. Thick red wire to the starter post with the positive battery cable, thick purple to the smaller plug on the starter, then the smaller purple wire to the ignition wire that used to be connected to the smaller plug on the starter.

You should have a ground connection though. Pls post hot shot instructions / schematic so we can help double-check

Thanks for your service RAD! What ship is that? Looks like there was a lot of paperwork with that one!

Most welcome. It's not just a job, it's an adventure. LOL! She's the USS Tripoli ran into a mine early morning of Feb 19 1991. Fortunately no serious injuries that I know of.

THUNDERSTRUCK!

 

[THOR_runner]

Thanks Wally. I'll dig around more for an 85. All the links I find are dead ends. And I'll hit those grounds for sure.

My 86 is a dlx and only has gas and temp. I saw a sr5 gauge cluster for $50 on ebay. That doesn't seem too bad to get a better set of gauges.

 

[THOR_runner]

Battery is grounded to fender in this pic just to the bottom right of the engine compartment fuse box. I'll spend some time this weekend tracing all the grounds and cleaning them up.

Hotshot is grounded to fender behind relay. Install link:
http://www.painlessperformance.com/Manuals/30202.pdf

Oh yes! What an adventure it is! I'm in a backlog waiting to class up for next round of training.
::twiddles thumbs::

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks Wally. I'll dig around more for an 85. All the links I find are dead ends. And I'll hit those grounds for sure.

My 86 is a dlx and only has gas and temp. I saw a sr5 gauge cluster for $50 on ebay. That doesn't seem too bad to get a better set of gauges.

Check the stickies up top for good links to the FSM.

$50 is a good deal for an SR5 cluster, if it works. If you do the swap, don't forget to change your oil pressure sender to the larger one.

 

[crazy gringo]

did anyone ask if its a stick or an automatic trans ?

 

[giro]

did anyone ask if its a stick or an automatic trans ?

Good point! If the 1st gen is like the 2nd gen, with a manual you have to have the clutch in to start. So another possibility is that sensor/contact is bad....if it's a manual. On my 92 I have the clutch override button on the dash, which can override that need on startup.

If auto, I know some vehicles need you to be in park, so it could be the same type of thing. I don't know if a 1st gen is configured that way, but we hit that issue a few times on an Accord.

 

[KidVermicious]

Not all manuals have a clutch start cancel. Mine doesn't, I forget that some do.

 

[THOR_runner]

Good catch. It's an auto. When I get the click no start I shift it around a few times and jiggle the shifter while turning the key and it does nothing.

 

[giro]

Not all manuals have a clutch start cancel. Mine doesn't, I forget that some do.

But even without the clutch start cancel button, on Gen 1's you still have to have the clutch in to start, right?

In my '92 FSM (page CL-4), it shows the Clutch Start Switch at the top of the clutch pedal. It looks like it is there on all Manuals, whether or not they have a Clutch Start Cancel Switch.

 

[giro]

What I don't get here is how most of this is related to the original issue. Grounds and wiring are important, but how do they relate to the original issue of cold start working, slightly warm start not working, and hot start working?

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd personally focus on the cold start system or a relay in the starting system.

( I'd consider something like too much gas coating the plugs, which wouldn't dry off in an engine that isn't heated up yet, but in retrospect you would still have the starter attempting to start)

Those could explain the symptoms, with the relay being a possibility if the battery voltage after 2 minutes of driving was still lower than it was at cold. I'm leaning against that one, but you could check it easily and quickly by checking the voltage with a meter before the cold start and before the warm start.

It's good to get the wiring fixed up and those battery and ground contacts in tip top shape, and fixing those now might make things easier to diagnose, but I'd expect problems from those to be more evenly distributed across the temperature spectrum instead of only causing problems when just slightly warm.

 

[KidVermicious]

But even without the clutch start cancel button, on Gen 1's you still have to have the clutch in to start, right?

In my '92 FSM (page CL-4), it shows the Clutch Start Switch at the top of the clutch pedal. It looks like it is there on all Manuals, whether or not they have a Clutch Start Cancel Switch.

I don't have to have the clutch in to start my truck. It's nice to be able to leave the clutch out and let the starter pull me up an obstacle if I kill the motor.

 

[nevada]

I don't have to have the clutch in to start my truck. It's nice to be able to leave the clutch out and let the starter pull me up an obstacle if I kill the motor.

mine is the same. it will start in gear. im not sure if it had a clutch safety switch, and it was disabled or not.
im inclined to think not, as im the 2nd owner, and the previous owner was an older lady. it was totally stock with running boards when I got it.

 

[giro]

I don't have to have the clutch in to start my truck. It's nice to be able to leave the clutch out and let the starter pull me up an obstacle if I kill the motor.

Hmmm, I didn't have any 1st gen FSM's downloaded. That Reno CL posting got me thinking actually thinking about getting one....

Looking at the FSM from the Google Doc link from http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/126898-where-find-factory-service-manuals.html , the 85 FSM doesn't show the clutch start switch, but the 88 FSM does (and in fact page CL-4 is an exact match to the one in my 92 FSM). So that switch was added somewhere in the 86-88 year.

(Sorry for the sidetrack...sometimes it's fun to find when these little things were added or changed)

 

[wallytoo]

my '87 has the clutch cancel switch/button.