Conceal Carry

[chucknorris]

With all these stats and numbers flyin around, it makes me feel like I'm at work drowning in spreasheets and formulas.....I come here to get away from that stuff.

The only number I'm concerned with is #1.....me.

To each his own, debate all you want about gun laws/control/rights, in the end the debate will never be won by any side.

I like my guns :uzi: AND my 4Runner :driving:

Im sure we can all agree on that :bigok:

"Can't we all just get along?"
-Rodney King

 

[StandardRockets]

Anyone know of a good gun rack for a 2008 T4R?

In addition to that I'm trying to figure out a good way to mount a few 80/20 rails on the roof rails to hold a few high power rockets for the hour and a half drive to the range.

I have guns because my local PD takes 6 minutes to go through 2 stop lights and travel a mile on a call for a drunk driver who is beating his girlfriend on their way home. When I tasked the city Mayor to inquire about the case and what could be improved with the PD, the police chief told the mayor "You should talk to the city attorney."
houseclearing6407

Believe me I'm all for gun control:
M16_3979
sporting_2591

I also like dealing with things myself. So I'm learning all the ins and outs of maintaining my runner. Why depend on others when costs are high:
draw_from_concealment_6750combo

Here is my favorite story of this year that I just had to share:
Shooting victim's sister charged with robbery - TwinCities.com

 

[Rivalsock]

Good point.

The only retort I have is the liklihood of being in a car accident vs. being in a situation where a handgun is needed but apparently some places it happens more often then you'd like.

Got me on that one.

Yeah it is very true that you are far more likely to be in an accident than a situation where you would need to use a firearm to defend yourself.

And to be fair the comparison to a seatbelt/airbag is a little off because I can't mishandle my seatbelt and injure (or kill) someone 50 feet away. But that being said the vast, vast majority of people who go through the process to get licensed to legally carry a gun are very respectful of the outcome negligence could have. A firearm that is properly handled is very safe; they just don't "go off" by themselves, the human has to screw up.

For whatever reason people just assume that when someone gets a carry license they are going to magically turn in to some self-proclaimed vigilante of justice running around pulling their gun on everyone and pretending they have the ability to enforce laws and play police. This just isn't the case though.

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

while my fellow Canucks are grilling u Americans, i have a few questions and i'd like honest answers. leave the bi-partisan crap at home, please?

(1) why don't (rightwing) American's feel like universal health care is a good thing, worth chipping in for, even if it means you are paying a little extra for your neighbour that may not be as well off as you?

(2) why can't the right see that the (my stats are rough here) the richest 4% take in like %50 of the income down there, but pay relatively no tax, and therefore they should pay their share in taxes to bring your own country out of this funk?

I guess what i'm asking is why is everyone on the right seem to have the 'every man for themselves' attitude? I believe it was the netherlands that was voted best country to live in the world, and from personal experience, they are very forward thinking, and yrs ahead of the west (including canada) in that regard. They are far left in the way the government is set up. They know that yes, they pay high tax, but it keeps the system going, and keeps their society better off as a whole in the end.

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

btw, i voted for our conservative party up here, which is as far Right as you can vote in Canada...just sayin'

 

[DC runner]

Good questions.

General Comment: Systimically speaking, it is important to understand WHERE a system of government came from. The USA represents a philosophical ideology very different from most other democracies.

The USA was premised upon the "I" and not the "WE", the actual discussion into what that means represents a pretty significant period of my graduate work. I will sum it up like this: In American political history and ideology, long held beliefs that work themselves into our very essence is this. That a single person, working toward their OWN self interest, ultimately HELPS society as a whole. John Locke/Hobbs and the concept of individual rights.

This idea is incorporated into the very being of what it means to be an American. I remember my thesis chair making a comment in class once. Why did America NEVER seriously flirt with Communism, SERIOUSLY flirt, when almost every other developed country on the planet did in the late 1800's and early 1900's before it was found to be an utterly indefeasible? Because American culture never adopted it. Look at how the words "communism and socialism" turn most American's stomachs.

So. If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it. So, the simplest way really is to say this. America was built on the "I", where many other democracies operate on the "WE".
It is our way.

Onto your specific points:

Healthcare. No one really knows what to do. America is the fattest nation in the world, and this is having an incredibly damaging effect on our nation. We are also aging. The baby boomer generation is literally MOVING the median age forward EVERY year. I recently say this: The average person pays in 80k in health care premiums whether in taxes or in individual plans. They lifetime average COSTS exceed 300k. With a majority of that coming at the END of their life. That is simply an unsustainable economic formula.

I don't have a solution here. Not my area of expertise, but the people in my office who DO study it say that it is going to be a larger and larger issue.



Onto 2.
This is erroneous. The top 10% of American's pay most of the nation's budget. By best estimates 70 percent. Furthermore, a full 47% of American's pay NO taxes, when you take into account tax writeoffs or government assistance, whether food aid or healthcare or grants.

So. To say the "rich" are raping america is a line and not exactly true. WHAT is true is that Wallstreet has TOO much power. I think most people would agree. The problem is, in a Self Interest based society, people have the ethical RIGHT to work toward self interest and profit. It is the "motivator" that keeps our wheel spinning.

 

[Rivalsock]

while my fellow Canucks are grilling u Americans, i have a few questions and i'd like honest answers. leave the bi-partisan crap at home, please?

(1) why don't (rightwing) American's feel like universal health care is a good thing, worth chipping in for, even if it means you are paying a little extra for your neighbour that may not be as well off as you?

(2) why can't the right see that the (my stats are rough here) the richest 4% take in like %50 of the income down there, but pay relatively no tax, and therefore they should pay their share in taxes to bring your own country out of this funk?

I'll bite... Not going to touch number one, but I think you are misinformed on point 2.

Share of Adjusted Gross Income by group

Average Tax Rate (Percent of Adjusted Gross Income paid in income taxes

Tax Shares (Percent of federal income tax paid by each group)

Yes, this data is for 2009 -- but it is the most recent complete data available.

The top percent of the income earners pay the highest for both tax rate and taxes paid. No data for the 4% you talk about, but the top 5% of income earners pay nearly 60% of the federal income taxes collected. Now notice that the same top 5% only collected 31.7% of the total adjusted gross incomes.

So the top 5% receives 31.7% of the adjusted incomes paid in the US, but they pay 58.6% of the taxes. Hardly the "relatively no tax" that you suggested.

I'm not going to argue the distribution or anything like that, but I just get very annoyed when people say that the top earners don't pay their fair share.

 

[teampwr2]

I live in Az Here if your over 18 you can carry concealed with no CCW at all you can stuff it in your pants ,holster ,glove box , underseat , anywhere you want to with no training required .. hows that !!1
Just knowing that virtually anyone or everyone is carrying is quite a thought... I carry Alot ... and always on the trail because out here in the desert you run into all sorts of things....And Dont leave your vehicle alone for more than an hour or its toast if your close to the city .... :shrug:

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

I'll bite... Not going to touch number one, but I think you are misinformed on point 2.

Share of Adjusted Gross Income by group

Average Tax Rate (Percent of Adjusted Gross Income paid in income taxes

Tax Shares (Percent of federal income tax paid by each group)

Yes, this data is for 2009 -- but it is the most recent complete data available.

The top percent of the income earners pay the highest for both tax rate and taxes paid. No data for the 4% you talk about, but the top 5% of income earners pay nearly 60% of the federal income taxes collected. Now notice that the same top 5% only collected 31.7% of the total adjusted gross incomes.

So the top 5% receives 31.7% of the adjusted incomes paid in the US, but they pay 58.6% of the taxes. Hardly the "relatively no tax" that you suggested.

I'm not going to argue the distribution or anything like that, but I just get very annoyed when people say that the top earners don't pay their fair share.

ok thank you, i was misinformed with the info. Perhaps the point of the statement i read was that a very small percentage of the country control a huge portion of the wealth...but what about my first question?

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

Good questions.

General Comment: Systimically speaking, it is important to understand WHERE a system of government came from. The USA represents a philosophical ideology very different from most other democracies.

The USA was premised upon the "I" and not the "WE", the actual discussion into what that means represents a pretty significant period of my graduate work. I will sum it up like this: In American political history and ideology, long held beliefs that work themselves into our very essence is this. That a single person, working toward their OWN self interest, ultimately HELPS society as a whole. John Locke/Hobbs and the concept of individual rights.

This idea is incorporated into the very being of what it means to be an American. I remember my thesis chair making a comment in class once. Why did America NEVER seriously flirt with Communism, SERIOUSLY flirt, when almost every other developed country on the planet did in the late 1800's and early 1900's before it was found to be an utterly indefeasible? Because American culture never adopted it. Look at how the words "communism and socialism" turn most American's stomachs.

So. If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it. So, the simplest way really is to say this. America was built on the "I", where many other democracies operate on the "WE".
It is our way.

Onto your specific points:

Healthcare. No one really knows what to do. America is the fattest nation in the world, and this is having an incredibly damaging effect on our nation. We are also aging. The baby boomer generation is literally MOVING the median age forward EVERY year. I recently say this: The average person pays in 80k in health care premiums whether in taxes or in individual plans. They lifetime average COSTS exceed 300k. With a majority of that coming at the END of their life. That is simply an unsustainable economic formula.

I don't have a solution here. Not my area of expertise, but the people in my office who DO study it say that it is going to be a larger and larger issue.



Onto 2.
This is erroneous. The top 10% of American's pay most of the nation's budget. By best estimates 70 percent. Furthermore, a full 47% of American's pay NO taxes, when you take into account tax writeoffs or government assistance, whether food aid or healthcare or grants.

So. To say the "rich" are raping america is a line and not exactly true. WHAT is true is that Wallstreet has TOO much power. I think most people would agree. The problem is, in a Self Interest based society, people have the ethical RIGHT to work toward self interest and profit. It is the "motivator" that keeps our wheel spinning.

thanks for the info, seems i was misinformed about #2.

I guess I don't understand why people don't see that it's common sense that everyone has to chip in to make the whole better, even in a self-interested society. It would benefit even the self interested. It's rewarding to help others. IMO, giving to things like charity is more than just a tax write-off.
I'd like to hear more opinions. I don't trust mainstream media, ie cnn or fox news, so i'd like to hear individual ideas from people living there.
Keep em coming

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

I live in Az Here if your over 18 you can carry concealed with no CCW at all you can stuff it in your pants ,holster ,glove box , underseat , anywhere you want to with no training required .. hows that !!1
Just knowing that virtually anyone or everyone is carrying is quite a thought... I carry Alot ... and always on the trail because out here in the desert you run into all sorts of things....And Dont leave your vehicle alone for more than an hour or its toast if your close to the city .... :shrug:

u can't park ur car for more than an hr? holy **** batman, time to move!!

 

[StandardRockets]

u can't park ur car for more than an hr? holy **** batman, time to move!!

We can't because Barney Frank screwed the housing market in the US and we'd all have to take a financial loss to move to the utopias of DC or Canada. Not to mention that the fire ants will eventually find where you setup that nice picnic.

 

[Eastcoastrunner]

come up to Canada, we have lots of room. But leave ur concealed guns at home! lol

 

[StandardRockets]

while my fellow Canucks are grilling u Americans, i have a few questions and i'd like honest answers. leave the bi-partisan crap at home, please?

(1) why don't (rightwing) American's feel like universal health care is a good thing, worth chipping in for, even if it means you are paying a little extra for your neighbour that may not be as well off as you?

(2) why can't the right see that the (my stats are rough here) the richest 4% take in like %50 of the income down there, but pay relatively no tax, and therefore they should pay their share in taxes to bring your own country out of this funk?

I guess what i'm asking is why is everyone on the right seem to have the 'every man for themselves' attitude? I believe it was the netherlands that was voted best country to live in the world, and from personal experience, they are very forward thinking, and yrs ahead of the west (including canada) in that regard. They are far left in the way the government is set up. They know that yes, they pay high tax, but it keeps the system going, and keeps their society better off as a whole in the end.

To answer #1, We already have healthcare for everyone. You walk into a doctor and pay for treatment. If you are smart enough to purchase insurance you take a calculated risk that the insurance company has enough revenue to cover claims. If you are a high risk person you will pay more. It's a gamble and well some people are genetically loosers in the healthcare game. As much as people want to be equal we are all not as smart or equally as healthy.

For #2, part of taking high risk involves chances of high loss and high return. The rich just happen to have more chips to play with and probably are smarter in what they bet on.

Boo hoo on those darn big companies that donate money to politicians. If you do not like them, don't give them money. I get such a kick out of all the OWS people who have $1500 cameras and expensive laptops that are getting stolen from their little park commune. Let's not forget Occupy Oakland who vandalized a Wells Fargo branch and just deposited $20,000 into Wells Fargo to help cover bail for people who get arrested. What a bunch of Hypocrites.

 

[StandardRockets]

I guess what i'm asking is why is everyone on the right seem to have the 'every man for themselves' attitude? I believe it was the netherlands that was voted best country to live in the world, and from personal experience, they are very forward thinking, and yrs ahead of the west (including canada) in that regard. They are far left in the way the government is set up. They know that yes, they pay high tax, but it keeps the system going, and keeps their society better off as a whole in the end.

Oops, sorry I forgot to address this.

Because when you work your rear off and are smarter than a lot of people your rewards are not as great when you have to give 40% of your effort into the collective when the bottom 20% of the collective are making crappy decisions that cost you money. Yeah I do not have kids and live in a smaller cheaper house than the unemployed single neighbor lady with 2 kids and an over 3000 square foot house. I'm paying to school her kids and yet when my sister chooses to home school her kids do you think she gets a tax break?

I'd have no problem giving more if everyone else put in the effort. But hell with people feeling entitled to my money, I'm going to fight like hell to keep them from getting their hands on it. That's why I (and other "right wingers") are such backwards (in your opinion) thinkers.

The more control you give government to choose or try to make winners in society and government, the more abuse you will see. Look at the results of Barney Frank's efforts as making everyone in America a homeowner. You had people owning homes they could not afford. And on the business side of things, the government chose to make Solyndra a winner but heck the government was just gambling with our money and they lost big time.

But hey I don't speak for all on the right. We are a very diverse group of people. Some do not like gays, and some of us are of the thought of whatever floats your boat but I do not have to like it and accept it. i.e. don't shove it down my throat. As far as people carrying handguns, the more the better. It'll make people think before they make a rash decision like keying someone's car because they thought they were cut off by you.



Now to get back on topic. you could make a nice form fitting type of holster using something like the shapelock product. But in a hot car that may not hold it's form if the car gets close to boiling. I carry on my ankle so no need for a car door holster. If I'm leaving it in my car I have one of those microvaults with a cable run around the rear lower seat post that is hinged. The microvault fits under the front passenger seat and the cable is almost invisible under the floormat.

 

[YotaDriver]

This thread is exactly why I don't come to the Toyota forum to read up on politics.

:rockthrow:

 

[Thai]

This thread has zoomed off into various topics! I go to work and look at where this thing has gone!

This was my original post in this thread...and i have no idea how it got to GOP, crime rates, etc..

Sig P239 or P290 with Winchester PDX1 124g +P.

Well, we live in a strange/dangerous time. High unemployment rate. Economy is bad. Life savings down the drain.

No longer do we see crime in low-rent areas or break-ins at night. Desparate times lead to desparate measures by people who want to violate other people's property and rights.

Break-ins now occur in good neighborhoods in broad daylight. Robbery occur in the middle of a restaurant on a Friday evening with people around. Church shootings. School shootings. Shootings at family gatherings. You name it.

Part of the reason why i don't drive luxury name cars. Part of the reason why i carry my gun everywhere...along with a small knife. Sad part...i live in a very good neighborhood.

Can you pick a specific time to get robbed or mugged? Can you ask your assilant to stop? Is it as simple as handing over your wallet and the robber moves on?

Like the old saying...better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

Here is a google search of carjacking in Houston: Google

The first story is very sad...and notice that it happened in broad daylight.

Another: Sugar Land: Two suspects in carjacking on the loose | khou.com Houston

And another: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=6221802

This is Sugar Land...a very high end suburb of Houston...with average house income of $105k or something like that.

House break-in in Missouri City: KHOU: Police impersonators break into Missouri City home | Ultimate Fort Bend

Daylight. This is NOT a run down city...this is a very nice suburb of Houston with plenty of communities that have million dollar homes.

Another in Missouri City: Police: Masked gunman bursts into Missouri City home, fatally shoots resident | khou.com Houston

You guys can do the google searches. Does this happen in every city? Of course. But, living in Houston, i get the sense that i hear the stories more and more these days. And knowing that i can't rely on Police all the time, i make sure that i can at least be capable of defending myself and my family from harm.

At least in TEXAS, all conceal carry folks are background checked thoroughly before a license is issued...and waiting period is now 3-6 months at least, partly due to background checking at state AND federal level but also because a lot of folks are signing up for conceal carry in these times! The applications have overwhelmed the public safety office in Austin!

I don't plan to act like a cop and punish those that do wrong. I don't plan to act like Batman. I just care about the safety of my family. Did i just buy a gun and be done with it. No, i actually altered my lifestyle and made as much changes to my house as possible to hopefully deter or prevent crimes against me and my family.

So, at least in my case (and many others), conceal carry license is not done to be cool, to act like a clown, to get drunk at off-road get-together and shoot off a few rounds...no, at least in TEXAS, you need to be a citizen in good standing...and these folks do so because they want to protect what they have, whether it be property or love ones.

 

[Thai]

And why are you posting links from 5 years ago....How about CURRENT...

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

The link shows:

While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states
• If you look at the firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, District of Columbia comes out top - with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 man, woman and child in the state. There were 99 firearms murders in DC in 2010, down 12% on 2009
• DC is followed by Louisiana (7.75) and Missouri (5.34)
• DC is also top for firearms robberies per 100,000 people - with 255.98
• If you look at aggravated assaults involving a firearm, Tennessee (129.87) and South Carolina (114.73) come above District of Columbia (99.25)

Some of the states mentioned are very strict with firearms, no?

Thanks for the link! Much appreciated!

More police, less crime: Evidence from US state data

- In general, more police = Less crime.


More Police, Less Crime - Crime and Consequences Blog
L.A. specific data

Department of Justice:
Less Prison, More Police, Less Crime



So there. lazy data for you.

And here is a liberal media on gun control: John Stossel Links Gun Control to Higher Crime Rates - YouTube

A good video BTW!!

And here is a good article to read: Guns and Violence: A Summary of the Field

 

[blkexp98]

I've had my CC License for almost 10 years now and think it a good thing for everyone. The issue that i work with with my wife (who just got hers too) is that you have to train for a situation. Its not just buy the gun and a holster and its done. I spent a good amount of time working with accuracy, reloading and malfunction clearing. If your not willing to put in that time then its best to not deal with it and don't carry. I know how far away i can be and where to aim to get good hits with consideration to the background. Where my business is I am not in a good part of town and especially now in the winter its darker faster. I had my AC unit stolen and so did the Police department for that matter. The bank right beside me was just robbed last week and the gas station across from me always has police there arresting someone. Then you have the prostitutes that show up around here from time to time too. I don't know if i just wasn't as aware when i was growing up here but i have to say since i moved back and the economy tanked it does feel like more bad is going on.

I want to protect my family and I cant always rely on the police. Sure i'm in the city but a crime take seconds and they just cant help me that fast. This isn't a concealed carry issue but back when I was younger my sister and i were the only ones at home and someone broke out a windows in the house. I had my shotgun at the time and was able to find the broken window and a golfball that was thrown through it. It turns out it was my sisters ex boyfriend and he then decided to try to kick the door in. He kept yelling he had a gun and was coming in so i just waited around the corner with the shotgun while my sister called the PD. Well they made it there after about 10 or 15 min and in that time if he would have broken down the door my sister and i could be dead if i didn't have anything. He didn't get through the door but did get picked up by the PD after running down the road.

I've been in situations where i was glad to have had my M&P 9c or compact 1911 but haven't ever drawn them since it didn't escalate to that level. I know that when i do draw it will be to fire so i don't plan to display it unless it gets to that level.

As far as the original question... Ive never really kept a firearm in the car that wasn't on me unless I was going to the shooting range. My thoughts are it will be better for me to use my knife or move the car if i am in it. I have developed a habit of always starting the car right when i get in it. That way a simple knock to the shifter and i'm good. I think it would be harder to defend against a lethal kill or even nonlethal shot if i was able to "run". If i still have the gun n me and get pulled out of my car then depending on the specifics i can still draw and fire. If its in the car and i didn't think to grab it as i was pulled out then i'm screwed. So I wouldn't bother with a vehicle holster. Now that winter is here we have coat pockets and can use that instead on the beltline and still have access if needed.

 

[sc1911cwp]

My vote goes here.