Conceal Carry

We can't because Barney Frank screwed the housing market in the US and we'd all have to take a financial loss to move to the utopias of DC or Canada.
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WHAT...Where have you been burying your head....

The housing market mess was over 90% caused by the Subprime mortgages...being bundled in with good mortgages and then selling them off as good mortgage. Then a company like AIG which insured these mortgages. Here's how it worked...Someone gets a mortgage that barely qualifies...plus the house is not in a nice neighborhood and probably won't see much growth potential. The banks (JP Morgan was the mastermind of this screwed up plan) broke up these mortgages into small chunks...then took good mortgages from people who easily qualified and who's homes were in a moderate to high growth area and also broke them into small chunks. The banks then took the chunks of both of these mortgages and bundled them together and sold them as "PRIME" mortgages. Then when the real estate bubble burst these "Prime" mortgages turned out to be "Sub Prime". And when this was finally realized (actually it was realized by many economists years earlier, but the banks did NOTHING to prevent it)...it was too late and just caused the mortgages to default...and AIG had to get bailed out because they couldn't afford to cover the insured mortgages.

The was part one...part 2 is because of the bubble mortgage lenders were defrauding banks by qualifying people for mortgages who were NOT qualified and never should have been qualified. It worked for a while because the housing market was on a rise...and these people who weren't qualified...after a year they just flipped the house and made a nice profit. But when the housing market bubble burst...the profits went away and now these people had to default on the loan which they never should have been given in the first place.

Many people want to blame Fannie Mae..but in truth they only accounted for a small percentage of the defaulted mortgages.
 
And here is a liberal media on gun control: John Stossel Links Gun Control to Higher Crime Rates - YouTube
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John Stossel - Yup...a very unbiased news reporter....

Thai...Thank you for PROVING my point....As I stated...Gun laws or lack of Gun laws have ZERO effect on violent crime...If it was then only states with lax gun control laws would be down....New Hampshire (where I live) has some of the most lax gun laws in the country..yet our violent crime rate is UP...Again thank you for proving my point.
 
StandardRockets said:
Oops, sorry I forgot to address this.

Because when you work your rear off and are smarter than a lot of people your rewards are not as great when you have to give 40% of your effort into the collective when the bottom 20% of the collective are making crappy decisions that cost you money. Yeah I do not have kids and live in a smaller cheaper house than the unemployed single neighbor lady with 2 kids and an over 3000 square foot house. I'm paying to school her kids and yet when my sister chooses to home school her kids do you think she gets a tax break?

I'd have no problem giving more if everyone else put in the effort. But hell with people feeling entitled to my money, I'm going to fight like hell to keep them from getting their hands on it. That's why I (and other "right wingers") are such backwards (in your opinion) thinkers.

The more control you give government to choose or try to make winners in society and government, the more abuse you will see. Look at the results of Barney Frank's efforts as making everyone in America a homeowner. You had people owning homes they could not afford. And on the business side of things, the government chose to make Solyndra a winner but heck the government was just gambling with our money and they lost big time.

But hey I don't speak for all on the right. We are a very diverse group of people. Some do not like gays, and some of us are of the thought of whatever floats your boat but I do not have to like it and accept it. i.e. don't shove it down my throat. As far as people carrying handguns, the more the better. It'll make people think before they make a rash decision like keying someone's car because they thought they were cut off by you.
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hey hey hey, i'm didn't call you a backward thinker...my reference to the euro country was that, even though i am sure there are LOTS of people that don't want to give away their cash, they do because it makes the country better as a whole.
How can you ever make sure 300+ million put in the 'same effort' though? Define that effort? I went to university for 10 yrs after high school, and now make a pretty good living. I'm in the highest tax bracket up here (i wont scare you by telling you what it is). But there are people who finished high school and are likely doing better than me, but also those doing worse.
Unfortunately, we see alot of your programs and news up here and both the right and left bring up governement wastefulness like you have. The left will tell you that Bush's admin laid the seeds for what you guys are going through now with the 50 million/day war yadda yadda yadda.
Being on the outside? I don't think you guys are going to make it out of the whole until both parties break down and compromise. Just seems like the right will do anything not to agree/vote/compromise with Obama. Left isn't innocent either. I hope compromise happens, trust me.
 
This is erroneous. The top 10% of American's pay most of the nation's budget. By best estimates 70 percent. Furthermore, a full 47% of American's pay NO taxes, when you take into account tax writeoffs or government assistance, whether food aid or healthcare or grants.
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Actually what you're saying is very misleading.

Yes the top 10% of American wealth pay most of the "Federal Income Tax". Federal Income Tax only accounts for less then HALF of the total Federal Tax collected. There are many other revenues where Federal Tax is collected....Business tax, Tax on certain goods like Tires and Cigarettes. Those things account for more then half the Federal tax in this country. And lets not forget that the top 10% account for over 70% of the nations net worth. The top 1% own over 34% of the nations net worth.

I'm all for setting our Federal Taxes back to when this country was founded. Since only land owners (i.e. Farmers) and businesses paid Federal Tax..I'd be exempt. And MOST of that income from the top 1% comes from capital gains which is taxed at a much lower rate. Why do you think CEO's salary is so heavily tied to Stock options??? They draw a salary of no less then $106k (so they can max out on their FICA). Then the rest is tied to stock options. These stock options are floating options. In other words it NOT a fixed set of number of stocks. They are guaranteed a certain amount of pay (lets say $10,000,000 in stock options). If the stock is selling for $50/share then they'll receive 200,000 shares of stocks at the end of the year....If the stock is selling for $40/share then they'll receive 250,000 shares of stock. They'll receive just enough stock so they get their $10,000,000 salary...And since it's in stock options they only pay 15% Federal tax as opposed to the 33% Federal Tax rate I pay.

As for the bottom 47%...the VAST majority are NOT on welfare. Let's drop those people from the equation (13% are on welfare). The remaining 24% still pay federal Tax. Not Federal Income tax..but payroll tax (like Fica). Plus they buy gasoline (18 cents per gallon)...they buy Tires (federal excise tax of 13%)...and the list goes on.
 
Personally, I believe that the general crime rate is inversely proportional to the state of the economy.

More jobs and opportunity...less crime, but that's my opinion and observations.

DC, maybe, but I actually grew up in Red Bank...I moved to Hixson after living in CA for nearly 10 years. Made good money and love the parks there...but couldn't stand the politics and the general snootiness (is that a real word?) of the people there...especially when you don't 'think' like them.

I think all Americans should have the right to bear arms (I have 4). Now having said that...do I think everyone should have a firearm...NO. I don't think everyone should be given a licenses to drive either (yeah, I talking to you Atlanta/LA drivers...). There is just too much "irresponsibility" in the world these days...for the lack of a better word.

Be safe out there (AND slower traffic keep right!)

Oh, yeah, keep your firearm with you at all times when outside the home. If you keep you firearm in your vehicle and it gets stolen and the gun is used in a crime...you could be held responsible, depending on the state laws.

Also, if you leave it in your vehicle and forget and someone else drives the vehicle (wife) who doesn't have a CCW permit, they could get in serious trouble if involved in an 'incident'...again, depending on state law.
 
Personally, I believe that the general crime rate is inversely proportional to the state of the economy.
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That will effect crime rate more far more then gun control laws or lack there of.

DC has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country...thus one of the highest crime rates...Detroit..same thing...Upstate NY..Same thing...Here in NH we have much lower unemployment rates..thus lower crime rates. I'm in no way justifying this...And you'll also find pockets where it's not true....But in general...I'm quite sure it's a valid statement.

Higher Crime Rate Linked To Low Wages And Unemployment, Study Finds
 
watching TV the other day, it was mentioned that the true purpose of baring arms in the US was to fight tyranny...true?
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Here's the exact wording in the constitution.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The US Supreme court has expanded (or interrupted it) to mean the right of an individual to bear Arms for self protection. Which I actually think is more reasonable.

Today - I have a hard time with the initial writing of the 2nd amendment. IF the true meaning is so we can defend ourselves from a tyranny government...then we must possess the arms to do so. A hunting rifle and a few pistols is NOT going to do it. To actually be able to defeat our Army...we'd need the same type of weapons. Personally I'm not very comfortable with people owning their own personal nuclear arsenal. Maybe it's just me.
 
CAN-03runner said:
Anyways, not sure where I stand 100% but I know laws and registries don't physically stop crime, But I do feel nervous knowing that people around me could be concealed carrying, since anyone can blow a fuse. But someone can blow a fuse with a baseball bat, a crow bar, and screw driver, a hammer, a steel chain or run me over in a 4Runner....there its about 4runners now;):................
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Anyone can blow a fuse, sure. But the guy who decides he is gonna blow his fuse and take some people out is gonna do it whether or not he has a gun and if he doesn't have one, he is gonna find one(and no F****IN gun law will ever prevent that from happening), illegally if need be and then go postal. The guy who already has a gun, I'm not worried about him. Crime statistics are MUCH lower amongst CCW permit holders!

My dad has been a cop and investigator for 30 plus years. He personally knows people, civilians, whose lives have been saved because they were carrying. Go to any major city in the US, Houston for example, where I am originally from and listen the news, on the radio or primetime news and watch the violent acts committed DAILY!!!. Anyone on here with statistics can say this or that is happening with crime rates, but I'm with Thai. I've lived in a place like that, grown up there, and if you lived in a place like that too, your views might change. You can also listen to the same news and hear about the people who saved their OWN lives or someone else's life, not the police, because they were legal permit holders and carrying.

Do I think everyone should be walking around with a gun? Hell no. But I'm going to continue to exercise my right and I would never infringe on someone else's right to so the same. I think its up to the state's to determine their laws and processes for approving permits. People with a criminal background are typically denied permits and it should stay that way.

Back to carrying in the car, for short trips, I leave mine IWB, but on long trips, the holster goes in center console. No special holsters for the car, but I have though about trying to set something up.
 
i'd like to know the gun crime, made relative, between Canada and the USA. The argument that 'guns kill people, not people' is fine for the rational minded, unfort those who use guns for violence/killing are irrational.
 
On a note of using the firearm and not using it. It is not something to be used lightly. From my understanding it is not a license to shoot and kill. It is a license to own and or carry, concealed or otherwise. Discharging into someone's body is very serious. And while you think you are defending yourself it may end up being a crime on your part if that force exceeds the required force needed to stop the crime or the assult on your own body.

Not sure if that is how it is in the United States but. I'm pretty sure our Canadian law says that you can only use enough force as is neccessary to stop the assult. Such that if someone punches you, you should only punch back and or step back, run away, if someone holds you down, you use enough force to get them off, kick them, strangle them back, they use a bat you use a bat, a hockey stick, a rock.....idea being that some guy tried to mug you using a plastic fast food knife, you don't pull out a revolver and lay it down on them. I don't know who mentioned this previously in another post. But he says he never takes his gun out. The gun will only come out as a last resort, cause if the gun is coming out it is to shoot, and not to simply display and wave it around. I parapharased it here as I interpreted.....

I think that there is a fine line. Regardless of whether you have a concealed weapon license or not, it is not a licsnse to shoot and kill and/or random target practice on your lawn trying to hit squirrels across the street. It is serious. Most of my American colleques that I have worked with and carried never needed it, and took it very serious. It was a serious thing to have and maintain the right to carry but equally serious if not much more serious was the possibility of someday having to use it, and that day might mean they would have killed someone. And if that was not neccessary, like it looked like they had a gun, but really they just had some curved pvc pipe, or they miss and shoot someone else....... man that would suck real bad. Not only that they shot an unarmmed man but that now they may be risking jail time for wounding or killing someone. This is the part where I'm not too familiar with US law.....

On a side note somewhat related to the above. About half my family still live in Italy on the rural country side, so I still have an interest in what goes on over there and I get tid bits of info here and there. So now criminals when breaking into someone's home have been successful in sueing the victims for damages if the home they were trying to rob had maybe a guard dog, or the owner of the home broke their arm with a bat let's say. So, the un written rule, the word on the street, rural country side street at least, if you will is....someone breaks into your home, that they will not just break your arm but finish the job. And quietly dispose of the body......life goes on, business as usual, break ins lessned in those rural areas. True, false, here-se, my cousins exagerating things, who knows. I wouldn't break into my cousins house....they sound pretty serious to me.

Oh yeah, back to topic....keep it on your person....if it's in the car you may not be quick enough or think to get it if you are pulled out of your car. Or if you forget it all together after you park your car at the mall to go shopping, and it gets stolen and used in a crime.
 
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Eastcoastrunner said:
i'd like to know the gun crime, made relative, between Canada and the USA. The argument that 'guns kill people, not people' is fine for the rational minded, unfort those who use guns for violence/killing are irrational.
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I haven't looked up any Canadian stats, maybe someone else can or will...... But based on what is reported in the news, gun killings seem to be massive mass shootings in public places from persons seemingly not thinking straight, or street gang.... you're in the wrong place at the worng time kind of thing and get hit with a stray bullet, and then the lovers killings, where someone in the couple shoots the other after catching them cheating, or can't get over the fact that the other has moved on etc....

But I don't know how to properly compare the 2 countries. one has 300million the other 30million people, such that cities like NY and LA have populations that rival our countries population spread over a land mass larger than the USA. And so what creates higher gun crime, small population, big population, unemployment, poverty....I dunno.... I may have said big city, over populated....but I did a contract one time in a little town in Indianna I believe.....so small that the the taxi I took, to get me to the airport....ok the runnway and indoor waiting hut in the next town over, well the cab driver didn't know how to get there, as he had never been there before....!!!! anyways, this next town over...apparently people were telling me had about 1shooting a week if not more...they were calling it a murder capital like it was a tourist attraction....!!! .That was crazy, cause all I saw was farm....So I'm don't know. Crazzies are everywehre I guess, even where you know all your neighbours. But then again. Probably same thing happening in the states. In Canada, pot grow ops have appreared in the middle of the forests, and on farm land, and farmers are held hostage and need to give up a portion of their land to these guys out of fear. So same thing may be going on there. Turf war. Has nothing to do with small town vs big city. It skews the numbers. It has to do with :toilet3: faces that took over.
 
CAN-03runner said:
On a note of using the firearm and not using it. It is not something to be used lightly. From my understanding it is not a license to shoot and kill. It is a license to own and or carry, concealed or otherwise. Discharging into someone's body is very serious. And while you think you are defending yourself it may end up being a crime on your part if that force exceeds the required force needed to stop the crime or the assult on your own body.
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At least in TEXAS, you're right partly...you only use your firearm as the last resort...and only if you feel that your life (or someone else) is in grave danger. Does it mean that the intruder is carrying only a knife or a baseball bat and thus you are not allowed to fire your gun? NOT AT ALL. If some jacka$$ is coming at me with a baseball bat in a hostile situation and i have no way out, then i am LAWFULLY allowed to use my firearm. Even if he is about to punch me with his bare fist in a hostile environment as such that i fear for my life, i am allowed to use my firearm to defend against deadly force. Deadly force does NOT only mean a gun or a knife. Hey, if some big muthafuker from UFC is coming at me and my family with the intent on harming us, then i will use whatever i can to defend my family...and that may include deadly force on my end.

Yes, you will be arrested, and probably be tried. But, in most cases, you will be let go.

BTW, like someone wrote above, since pulling the trigger on my gun is the LAST RESORT, i am taught to aim to kill. I will empty my magazine if i have to defend my family. (I carry a spare mag!) Thus, i don't pull out my gun just to scare people...in fact, by doing that, you can get into trouble. No, i only pull my gun as the last resort and only if i feel that i am in grave danger...and when i do pull it, it is my intent to stop the attacker with full force. Now, if the attacker sees my gun and reverse course and runs away, then wonderful. As most conceal handgun folks are taught, you pull out your gun to use it, NOT to scare kids.

And of course, what gets brought up a lot is the type of ammo you use. For me, i will ONLY use ammo that cops and FBI use. I don't use any rare experimental stuff. I don't use reloads (for defense). I don't use anything that is outlawed by the law. And i use hollow-points.
 
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Two stories. I may get the details wrong, but you get the gist of it.

Story #1: some hick (my kind of hick!) in texas shot a home intruder who was robbing his neighbor's house...there is even a 911 call by the hick as he was pumping his shotgun! The intruder died. The family of the intruder sued. This got a lot of press. In the end, the hick got off clean. I like those kind of neighbors! :gun6:

Story #2: a pharmcist who owns a small pharmacy was tired of being robbed constantly by drug addicts. He buys a gun. The next time that he is held up, he pulls out his gun and shot one of the addict. He chases the other addicts away. As he came back into his store, the addict that he shot was still alive. He went ahead and shot that guy some more and killed him. This was all videotaped by his store's camera. The pharmacist was convicted and was found guilty of manslaughter. Reason? He came back to finish off the wounded addict. Now, if he had empty his gun on that addict initially and kill immediately, then he would be free.
 
I know this may seem naive, but is there anyway to get back to the original topic and answers the OP's question. Is there a preferred method of placement in the t4r that makes quick access convenient?

I haven't done it (yet). But I am considering bolting a left hand carry plastic holster to the side of the middle console. (between my right leg and shifter. My .45 Springfield XD comes with a right hand standard but the lefty is easy enough to come by. Basically just a bolt.

Although here are some good ideas.

Super cheap holster suitable for car mount? - XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source!

Might combine the idea about the extra cig plug with this one.
 
So I watched this video and am now reconsidering the ankle holster.

'Stop & Go' Advanced Firearm Vehicle (Zombie) Defense Drill - YouTube

I also think you should never leave an unsecured (not in a vault or discreet case) firearm in plain view even if the vehicle is locked no matter what the local laws are.

So to sum up what I will be doing:
If carrying: Pistol - On right hip / inside waistband holster
If just transporting: Pistol in microvault that is secured to the rear passenger seat metal hinge.
Long Gun transportation: in a case in the back of the T4R with the privacy cover and a blanket covering it.


Now if you are ever stopped by the police here in the US, this has to be the best advice to take:
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
 
Thanks for the ideas. I have a Sig 220 Carry with Hornady 185 gr JHP. And for the record you can pretty much get in trouble anywhere. I was shot at in a hotel parking lot in Brush, CO; in the middle of a blizzard. I've been in 3 attempted muggings in Omaha. And I lived through a deployment in Afghanistan. I have no wish for some criminal to end my life. They made their choice, my choice is to live. That is one of the reasons to carry.

I'm thinking of making a holster and mag wells in the driver's door. With a locked door on it so I can leave them in the car if I have to. I can shoot with both hands so it doesn't bother me to draw with my left.
 
So I got in this thread a little late but I have had to draw my arm on a stiletto in the hands of a crackhead. came up behind me and I heard him unveial it, like a sword from a sheath, turned around and put the barrel of a Glock 23 on his nose and said quote" you better but that toy back in your pocket boy" needles to say he did. I carry everyday. Have a p238 in my pocket rght now. in an awesome custom made water buffalo holster. I once heard it put like this and it stuck:

"when seconds count, police are minutes away"

I live by it. It not just guns, its survival kits, canned goods, first aid kits around every corner. Its called being prepared. yea my family will survive and live happy lives.

Some people think I live in fear, well you know what I tell them?

If you think I live in fear, you live in ignorance. Its on the news everyday, murders over here, shootings over there. People die everyday that if they had a gun, things might have been different. Ive had to draw my arm twice in 3 years, very glad I had it with me. Could have saved my life.

So in closing to all of you and especially the op, it doesnt matter where or how you have it concealed. just make sure you have it. And if you have a state issued permit, be sure to follow all the rules and regulations to save yourself some trouble and maintian a good gun toating reputation. being liscenced to carry is a responsibilty to your community, It might not be you that you save, you have the right and responsibilty to help others in need as well.

serious bodily injury, death or sexual abuse. allow the use of deadly force.
 
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