Control Arms, Yes or No?

D

Dkon82

New member
Hey guys, I was hoping some of you might be able to shed a bit of light on a question I have. From what I understand when doing a 3" suspension lift the rake is straightened out beyond factory specs, but can be set back to factory spec with a pair of new aftermarket control arms. (outside of this forum) some say you should put the new control arms after doing the lift and others say it's not that big of a deal. Can anyone describe to me what the driving conditions would feel like and under what conditions, between having vs not having new control arms after doing a 3' suspension lift (no spacers)?
thanks guys, any input would be greatly appreciated!!

If it makes any difference the, lift I'm interested in doing is the billstein 5100's (all set at 0) OME medium's in the rear and pro comps in the front. (3' total). Tires: 285/70 17.
 
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At 3" of lift, control arms are optional. Some state that they have issues, other don't have any problems. If you go over 3", they're definitely recommended. The issue you run into is with the alignment. Once you go over 3" of lift, there's not enough adjustments to get the alignment back into specs. The aftermarket UCA's have more adjustment so this issue is fixed.

I would put the lift on and have it aligned. If they are unable to get it back within specs, then I'd consider the UCA's. May cost you two alignments, but I think at 3" you'll be able to do without the UCA's so it's worth a shot IMO. Issues with incorrect alignment after the lift can be uneven tire wear and wandering on the highway, at least those are the common ones I hear about.
 
Dkon82 said:
Hey guys, I was hoping some of you might be able to shed a bit of light on a question I have. From what I understand when doing a 3" suspension lift the rake is straightened out beyond factory specs, but can be set back to factory spec with a pair of new aftermarket control arms. (outside of this forum) some say you should put the new control arms after doing the lift and others say it's not that big of a deal. Can anyone describe to me what the driving conditions would feel like and under what conditions, between having vs not having new control arms after doing a 3' suspension lift (no spacers)?
thanks guys, any input would be greatly appreciated!!

If it makes any difference the, lift I'm interested in doing is the billstein 5100's (all set at 0) OME medium's in the rear and pro comps in the front. (3' total). Tires: 285/70 17.
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I believe the upper control arms will help align the upper ball joint, since as you raise the front the ball joint will be pulled to one side - may cause the rubber to tear later on. Also, you say "all set at 0" - not sure what you mean because the rear does not have an adjustment and 0 is suppose to have no lift - did you mean front setting to 4 (2.5" lift)? If your using the maximum position on the Bilstein 5100, you shouldn't need to replace your UCA, unless you want your ball joint to be at a nominal position and last longer.
 
Never heard that on the ball joints. Sounds to me like he just meant the fronts on the lowest setting (or maybe mistakenly thought the rears were adjustable). Doesn't matter, he's planning to use aftermarket coils to provide the lift instead of the spring perch on the shocks.
 
I have about 3.5" of lift in the front with stock UCA's and i was able to get back to factory spec without a problem. I agree with ARK, put the lift on and get the alignment done, then see if you need new UCA's.
 
Thanks for the Insight fellas!
ARK and empty: to clarify: you are right, I didn't realize the rear billsteins were not adjustable, but as for the fronts I will be leaving them in their natural state, (a setting of zero) for maximum travel and less pressure on the strut. The springs will be doing all the lift.

As for whether or not I'll do the UCA's I'm on the fence about it. I still want the ride to be smooth, even at highway speeds. The dilemma Is: having to spend an extra $300 if I decide later to install the UCA's. That's about $900 extra with parts and labor.

So if I do decide to hold off on the USA's, other than some minor ride differences the change in rake won't be harmful to any other components to the truck (other than the tires/alignment)?

Thanks again for the insight guys!!
 
Casper421 said:
I have about 3.5" of lift in the front with stock UCA's and i was able to get back to factory spec without a problem. I agree with ARK, put the lift on and get the alignment done, then see if you need new UCA's.
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When you say you got your truck back to factory spec, are you referring to the alignment or the rake?
 
Dkon82 said:
As for whether or not I'll do the UCA's I'm on the fence about it. I still want the ride to be smooth, even at highway speeds. The dilemma Is: having to spend an extra $300 if I decide later to install the UCA's. That's about $900 extra with parts and labor.

Thanks again for the insight guys!!
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Since your putting in new shocks you'll probably feel it's better, anyways. As what Dekon82 may have been getting at, due to the lift you will have a difference in steering since the front suspension is extended. It will give it a slacker rake angle so it will have a bit slower steering but a bit more stable at highway speeds.
 
empty403 said:
Since your putting in new shocks you'll probably feel it's better, anyways. As what Dekon82 may have been getting at, due to the lift you will have a difference in steering since the front suspension is extended. It will give it a slacker rake angle so it will have a bit slower steering but a bit more stable at highway speeds.
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I have to disagree. After a 3.5" lift and 285's, my steering feels the same as the day I bought the truck.
 
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I appreciate it guys.
It seems like there aren't too many strong opinions leaning in either direction. Hopefully everything will feel fine with the old UCA's and I won't have to spend the extra $$$.
 
Dkon82 said:
What type of lift did you go with? Any pics?
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Front: OME 885's plus Toytec spacer and 5100's set at 0 for about 3.5". Rear: Spuerflex coils and 5100's for about 2.25".

Im at work, there are some pics in the 4th gen lift and tire sticky. I can post some later.
 
I have the 5100s and bilsteins set at 0. When i zapped the rim back on after doing the lift I noticed my control arm was kind of bound up with the coil. the second it hit the ground though it was working as it should. Theres very little room between the UCA and the coil and if I was beating on it I would definatly get new control arms. I never had the time to get it aligned because I was debating on doing the UCA's for the hell of it.

YOU DONT NEED THEM. But if it's in the budget, it certainly isnt going to hurt anything.
 
deltaclothingco said:
I have the 5100s and bilsteins set at 0. When i zapped the rim back on after doing the lift I noticed my control arm was kind of bound up with the coil. the second it hit the ground though it was working as it should. Theres very little room between the UCA and the coil and if I was beating on it I would definatly get new control arms. I never had the time to get it aligned because I was debating on doing the UCA's for the hell of it.

YOU DONT NEED THEM. But if it's in the budget, it certainly isnt going to hurt anything.
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Thats good to hear. Thanks for the input!
What springs did you go with and how much higher up are you?
 
When I installed mine, I felt like the front end seemed to absorb bumps and and turns better. The first few rides I remember saying it felt better but now so used to it, can't really say.

I changed mine, because my tires rubbed, and with my MT's I couldn't even bolt the rims back on. So with the light racing UCA's I now have space between the UCA and tire sidewall. I'm not sure there is a big difference.In theory yes, but in practice....not surem unless your tires rub.

About half my offroad buddies have them and about half don't, and I can't see much of a difference in the way one climbs up and over or through an obstacle. Mostly have been put on to solve alignment problems, or rubbing on UCA from wider tires or because it looks cooler.

When my original UCA were off, I noticed that the rubber was cut, so that could account for the better ride with the after market UCA too. If the original UCA's are done, and you need to replace for maintenance, the Toyota ones are like 400-600$ each, aftermarket UCA like light racing at 400$ a pair start to look like a good option for sure.
 
CAN-03runner said:
When I installed mine, I felt like the front end seemed to absorb bumps and and turns better. The first few rides I remember saying it felt better but now so used to it, can't really say.

I changed mine, because my tires rubbed, and with my MT's I couldn't even bolt the rims back on. So with the light racing UCA's I now have space between the UCA and tire sidewall. I'm not sure there is a big difference.In theory yes, but in practice....not surem unless your tires rub.

About half my offroad buddies have them and about half don't, and I can't see much of a difference in the way one climbs up and over or through an obstacle. Mostly have been put on to solve alignment problems, or rubbing on UCA from wider tires or because it looks cooler.

When my original UCA were off, I noticed that the rubber was cut, so that could account for the better ride with the after market UCA too. If the original UCA's are done, and you need to replace for maintenance, the Toyota ones are like 400-600$ each, aftermarket UCA like light racing at 400$ a pair start to look like a good option for sure.
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Thats good to know which brings up a related question i have. If I did replace the UCA's in order to fit bigger tires, do you or does anyone else know what size of tire/ rim offset combination would give my 4r a wider looking stance (having the tires stick out about 2 inches or so from the wheel well) and only having to do minor trimming if need be (on a 3" lift)?
Thanks for an input!!
 
Dkon82 said:
Thats good to know which brings up a related question i have. If I did replace the UCA's in order to fit bigger tires, do you or does anyone else know what size of tire/ rim offset combination would give my 4r a wider looking stance (having the tires stick out about 2 inches or so from the wheel well) and only having to do minor trimming if need be (on a 3" lift)?
Thanks for an input!!
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With a 3" lift, you would probably need to do minor trimming and that would include (most likely) removing the mudflaps too. In regards to a wider stance, have you considered the Spidertrax or All-Pro Wheel spacers? That will push out the tires a little more, either 1.25" or 1.5", depending on which one you get, and give you the wider, more aggressive stance you're after. Those will also help with keeping the wheel/tire from rubbing on the UCA. Hope that helps!
 
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