Corn Ethanol Subsidy Going Away

1engineer

Moderator
I wish I could tell you what will happen but I don't know. I think it's a good move as I believe a product should stand under its own merits and not have an unfair advantage being subsidized by our government. I think it makes room for sugar ethanol from Brazil.

Article:
Corn-based ethanol is a controversial fuel in its own right, and a longstanding federal subsidy for blending the biofuel with gasoline has been an additional source of consternation over the last 30 years. According to The Detroit News, Congress has wrapped up its work for 2011 without extending the incentive, a move that's drawn praise from environmental groups and taxpayer advocates.

Hand-in-hand with the discontinuation of the tax subsidy, an import tariff on ethanol imported from Brazil has also been cancelled, which opens the tap for a source of ethanol that doesn't have the reputation of being a dirty diversion of a food crop that corn-based ethanol carries. That means that while the blenders' tax credit is no more, the 2007 legislation calling for a significant increase in the use of renewable fuels is likely not going anywhere if the abundant ethanol produced from Brazil's sugarcane economy can be used instead.

The corn lobby is naturally not thrilled with the news, but it has put on a brave face. Tom Buis of Growth Energy, a group that supports and fosters the cause of domestic ethanol production, tells the DetNews, "without the tax credit, the ethanol industry will survive; it will continue to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, create jobs, and strengthen our economy." That statement isn't exactly at odds with the actions of Congress, since there's now about $6 billion per year that could be plowed into further renewable fuel research and development that would ensure corn ethanol is indeed a stepping stone fuel, as it was sold in the first place.
News Source: The Detroit News
 
Register to hide this ad
Good. Should never have been subsidized anyways. Just like it never should've been touted as a "greener" alternative fuel.
 
Good. Should never have been subsidized anyways. Just like it never should've been touted as a "greener" alternative fuel.

I note that e85 in Tulsa, is only about 10 cents cheaper than 87 unleaded. Not the huge difference like when it first came out.
 
this is funny.

Why is it funny? Why do you think it was subsidized? It surely wasn't so it could be sold for the same price as gasoline while the oil companies were paid more to sell it.

--edit--

For what its worth, I had a full conversion to e85 on a 2005 WRX (performance reasons) for a few years. I am pretty knowledgeable, in parts I have retained, about e85. If I recall correctly, part of the subsidy requirements were that the fuel was to be sold for a certain amount less. I do not feel like searching, so I cannot provide proof, but I am fairly certain.
 
Last edited:
You don't think it's subsidized? Dude, it is...


There's many equations out there that put the total cost of production anywhere from $1.25 to as much as $4.00 a gallon. The biggest "kicker" is that it takes more energy to produce the fuel than you get out of it.

Ethanol

United States Corn Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database

Mountains of Corn and a Sea of Farm Subsidies - New York Times
You misread what I wrote. I know it is subsidized. I meant it is subsidized to keep the cost down when I said why. Last I knew, it is to the tune of $4.18 a gallon subsidy. Keep in mind that it is per gallon of ethanol, and regular fuel is around 10% ethanol.
 
And/or higher fuel prices :dammit:

I work in oil and natural gas production - this is what I do for a living. Production in the USA is very high right now, so much that we are exporting tons of gasoline. We have so much production in my area we can't even sell it to market cause all the pipelines are backed up. This is why people are pushing for the Keystone Pipeline.

You'll see fluctuation between $.50 up and down, but the big jumps of $2+ dollars are behind us (Unless something crazy happens, Iran counts a crazy)

Whatever your flavor of news is I'm sure they have something one this.

Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011

U.S. On Pace To Become Net Fuel Exporter Despite High Gasoline Prices At Home | Fox News

I'd like to think that with $80/$7 oil/ng we make good money and it provides for around $2.25 gasoline and people can afford to heat their houses, everyone is happy. The people who really lose are independent stations who had to buy one of these pumps - now it will have to be converted back to something. Lots of them had e85 on a single and prem/plus/reg on a single.

Remember hippies - domestic oil production is putting lots of good jobs (over 75K) into areas that didn't have that. NO OTHER INDUSTRY is doing that right now.
 
Last edited:
clarity

Demand imbalance (east vs west) and excess refinery capacity means there are larger margins to be had by the export of finished goods (gasoline) to refinery constrained markets (China). Don't be confused, the USA is still completely dependent on foreign oil. Domestic production of natural gas will not change that anytime soon. Heavy oil from Canada is the only sure thing on the table, so the ‘pipeline’ makes a lot of sense for the USA and Canada at the moment.
Mind you, there are many billions being invested globally in building refinery/chemical capacity, most of it in Middle East and Asia (China mostly). Prices in this country are determined almost completely by crude prices (at the moment). In the late 90s we were capacity constrained refinery and pipeline ... so gasoline and NG prices increase following domestic demand.
Gasoline prices will remain high because they will be determined by foreign demand. It’s the ‘Global economy’ and it is good for us all ... or so I’m told. Since tariffs are being largely eliminated by free trade agreements (like NAFTA), foreign producers are gaining access to the US market. In the short term, these treaties allow the US to export goods to FTA countries and sell goods into more markets (sounds good anyway). Longer term, our (remaining) manufacturing jobs will be lost to these same countries, unless we are willing to do the same job for less money year over year.
In any event Brazil (and others) can now fully exploit FTA and import ethanol into USA markets. This will decouple the price of ethanol from domestic corn (and hurt farmers). The smaller ethanol producers will be forced out of business, larger ones might be able to ride the corn prices down and use economy of scale to compete, basis transportation margin advantage.
So our gasoline mileage will still remain unchanged (EPA has ‘regulated’ us into producing more air pollution … ‘greener’ air pollution). Since there will fewer skilled jobs year over year, we will have more time to debate the wisdom of our leaders in engineering this mess. Then, maybe someone will figure out how in the hell a Chinese transmission got put in the Mustang GT.
 
I'll be surprised if the ethanol subsidy goes away.

Too much of a lobby, both business and political to let that happen.

But if it does, we will make up the difference at the gas pump (6 - 10 cents per gallon?)
 
It is going away. Congress did not extend the subsidy. No it will make no difference except we will be using sugar cane ethanol instead of corn based. Basically this only means the congress can spend the 6B somewhere else instead of on corn. I'm sure they can think of something good...
 
Remember hippies - domestic oil production is putting lots of good jobs (over 75K) into areas that didn't have that. NO OTHER INDUSTRY is doing that right now.

Remember rednecks - the bottom line is not always the number one objective. The health of people and the health of our environment must be considered. And the #1 job "creator" right now should be the government since they have the resources to do so. Instead of stripping government jobs (police, firemen, teachers, etc.), the government should be creating them. Stimulating the economy starts from the bottom up, not the top down.

Sorry, I don't normally participate in the flame wars but I get tired of conservatives on this board (which seem to be the majority, strangely enough. I thought conservatives only bought American cars :)) constantly taking their shots and not getting called out.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, I'm ecstatic about this news. Corn-based ethanol was never a good idea. Brazil has the climate for growing sugarcane which is much more efficient. What we should be doing is growing hemp for ethanol (as well as many other uses, not to be confused with the higher THC cannabis plants although they have useful properties as well ;)). That way we can compete with Brazil. This is certainly much greener and better for the US than importing ethanol from Brazil.

I imagine corn will be more expensive in the stores. Mexico can go back to buying their own locally grown corn since they will no longer have to compete with cheaper subsidized American corn. This means more jobs in Mexico so they're less likely to come to the US for work. There might be less corn-based sugars being used in our foods which is better for our health in the long run. And less tax dollars going to something that most of us don’t want anyway. It’s a win-win-win in my book.
 
And the #1 job "creator" right now should be the government since they have the resources to do so.

This has to be a joke.

The government has so much expendable "resources" that were 15 trillion in debt right now.

Some brilliant work here.
 
Last edited:
This has to be a joke.

The government has so much expendable "resources" that were 15 trillion in debt right now.

Some brilliant work here.

They could have just sent us all a $40K check, a bag of weed and called it even, WTF were they thinking?
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
278,309
Messages
3,554,068
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top