Cracked rear drums, and patience.

[20024r]

Hi, new member, long time lurker. Have wrenched on and owned more vehicles than I can recall throughout my life, and eventually ended up becoming a die-hard Toyota fan, because well they're better than everything else ha. I've owned my 2002 4runner sport for about 6 months now and have been doing battle with it for the past few months. Other than the OME/5100's 2" lift that I installed which went on easy as pie. I have been going through the 3rd gen brake woes, first I did the 231mm tundra swap, hated the pedal feel so went to 199's, then I found that my rear wheel bearings and axle seals were toast, while doing those I found that someone had previously cut into BOTH axles attempting to remove previous replaced seals, so I got new axles, then my brakes were crap STILL(I've bled them every possible way you could suggest at least 8 times), so I figured maybe I should do my drums and shoes, as they looked ancient anyways. Got new drums and shoes, and couldn't get them tuned in for the life of me, uneven shoe wear/tight spots...and now I am here, at a loss. Pulled my drums and noticed they are cracked! The axle flange hub seems to have a beveled lip that prevent the drums from sitting flush on the axle(which seems like an awful design). The variables it comes down to are these 1. This is normal and my torque wrench is incredibly out of spec 2. The axles are correct and all of the parts stores I've checked somehow have recommended the wrong drum 3. The axles(SVL) are incorrect and/or were improperly machined at the factory. I have searched all day, I cannot find any specific reference or information to varying axle/drum sizes for these rigs. Any help would be greatly appreciated, hopefully these sweet pictures help!

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[kolelt]

I have the big tundra brake upgrade. And I think it feels normal. As long as you bleed the brakes properly and adjust the rear brakes. Very important to adjust the rear brakes in order to have a good pedal.

 

[Hopeless Diamond]

Have only had the drums off my '96 once and didn't pay attention to the flange (pleasantly surprised at how easy the drums came off). I don't remember if there was a step like the picture shows, but it seems to me there wasn't. with all the axle seal replacement info floating around here, somebody should be able to tell you what an OEM flange looks like. That would be my first guess at the problem.

 

[AgeOfOctane]

Use Toyota Parts for the rear brakes

I suffered from very long pedal travel and pulsing brakes when I bought my '96. The P.O. had the rear brakes replaced and the shop used aftermarket drums, which promptly warped. Right after I got it I did the Tundra upgrade and my pedal feel didn't improve or worsen. After a few years of dealing with unsatisfying brakes I picked up some Toyota drums from the junkyard (unless something happens to ruin them, they should last nearly forever on these trucks), gave them a little sanding and put them on with some Autozone shoes. The pedal travel improved a little and the pulsing was gone, but they began over tightening and locking up. Returned them and put on OEM shoes and that problem was also resolved. After adjusting them and giving them a good bleed, the pedal travel is much better. I've read on here that the ABS can get air trapped in it as well, and the solution is to activate the ABS several times on a gravel road and then bleed the brakes (with the engine running apparently). I plan to do this ABS routine sometime soon to try to firm the pedal up the rest of the way.
Sorry I can't help with your flange question, but I do believe all drums on these trucks are identical.

 

[Mark_BC]

Could it be your brake booster? The 2001-2002's have an electric one that can cause problems.

 

[20024r]

fun times

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. The Tundra upgrade has a huge variety of opinions, I happened to hate how much pedal travel I gained, which most likely was increased tenfold by faulty/misadjusted rear brakes. I decided to swap to s13we's because the fluid volume is the same as oem 4runner calipers, and happening prior to finding cracked drums figured it was one less thing I'd have to question.

I have heard about air getting into the ABS module, but after lots of research(and a Toyota mechanics opinion) there should not be air in the ABS system unless the MC was drained or removed.

I scrapped my old drums/axles and am now kicking myself for not being able to get a visual on the OEM parts. I may hit the JY and try to find some oem drums. I have access to a metal lathe and could turn the hub of the drums to fit the axle bevel, it's not much. Just seems so strange, especially if all 3rd gen runners use the same axles/drums.

If anyone feels like snapping a picture of their axle flange I'd greatly appreciate it! For some reason I haven't been able to find any clear photos that show it close enough. I do know that the parts store will have hell to pay if I just installed faulty axles...I do not feeling like doing that job again...

 

[20024r]

Just for clarity I'm not troubleshooting my brake pedal or stopping ability anymore. Just need insight on why the hell my drums won't fit on my new axles. I returned the new/cracked drums for a different brand drum and they do not sit flush on the axle either. This is the issue, once it's solved my brakes could stop the world with how much time I've spent working on them haha

 

[phattyduck]

I'm not seeing that lip on pictures from the googles... Looks like the axles are wrong.

How to change brake shoes / drum brakes | Mike Thomson

-Charlie

 

[20024r]

I'm not seeing that lip on pictures from the googles... Looks like the axles are wrong.

How to change brake shoes / drum brakes | Mike Thomson

-Charlie

Thank you! The last time I tried to read that DIY his site was down. Those axles do not have any lip, which leads me to believe that I was sold faulty axles...

 

[BrianK14]

Maybe an aftermarket axle? I’ve got a set of axles that came out of my 2002, in good shape. If you need them, PM me and we can make a deal.

 

[Nate_GB]

Thank you! The last time I tried to read that DIY his site was down. Those axles do not have any lip, which leads me to believe that I was sold faulty axles...

Definitely an incorrect axle. I'm kind of curious what they are meant for. Where did you get them?

 

[20024r]

Definitely an incorrect axle. I'm kind of curious what they are meant for. Where did you get them?

I'm very interested in what they are meant for as well...especially because they fit and i was able to drive on them for awhile, even though they destroyed my drums. PN#2022672 SVL brand. I bought them through AutoZone (they have them branded as DANA axles) because I got the best deal and there seems to be only one manufacturer that makes them anyways, aside from expensive aftermarket options. That PN# axle shows up compatible for all 3rd gen 4runner years, so either they sent the wrong ones or both of them happened to be improperly machined...which is unlikely. Pretty pissed that I will have to do this axle job again.

 

[Riceye]

PN#2022672 SVL brand.

I did a little checking and that's the Dana SVL number that comes up. I pull my drums annually to check brakes, seals, etc., and clean up/anti-seize that drum to hub interface. I don't recall that lip or shoulder on the hub and can see how that will interfere with mounting your drums. Something is just not right with these axles.

Edit - Here's a pic from Dana's aftermarket page for this part. Sometimes the pics are generic for similar parts, but this one shown does not have the ridge.

 

[WWRD99]

Just for clarity I'm not troubleshooting my brake pedal or stopping ability anymore. Just need insight on why the hell my drums won't fit on my new axles. I returned the new/cracked drums for a different brand drum and they do not sit flush on the axle either. This is the issue, once it's solved my brakes could stop the world with how much time I've spent working on them haha

If you're looking at the center part of the hub on the axle that is not machined square that is not normal on the factory axle...it shouldn't have a bevel there...not sure about the aftermarket ones...maybe they skipped the final machine step??

 

[20024r]

If you're looking at the center part of the hub on the axle that is not machined square that is not normal on the factory axle...it shouldn't have a bevel there...not sure about the aftermarket ones...maybe they skipped the final machine step??

Welp, stopped by AutoZone on my way home, the manager speculated improper machining, they are ordering me new axles, with new wheel bearings, races, studs and lug nuts free of charge. Great news considering I'll probably have to cut some of the parts off just to get my drum plate and bearing cup off. Now hopefully I can get these drums warranteed and I won't take too much of a loss, other than labor time -_- Actually got one of the axles pulled already, found a number but haven't been able to find anything on it, it reads ASRO575-RI or possibly ASR0575-RI. I'll keep this thread posted as the saga continues, hoping to get back on the road someday...

 

[3bears]

I just finished my bearings and seals about 2 days ago, I don't remember a lip like that.

 

[nissanh]

Sorry to hear the trouble you are going through.

All these issues are related to non-oem parts. I guarantee that. Use OEM and you will not have a single issue.

Most of the time good used toyota OEM part will outlast 10-20 non-oem brandnew part (example an alternator). Get a good set of axles from a used toyota truck.

My truck has 212K miles and still runs like new. People replace parts assuming the toyota breaks down like other trucks but worst part is they replace a good toyota part with an aftermarket cheap parts.

 

[20024r]

Sorry to hear the trouble you are going through.

All these issues are related to non-oem parts. I guarantee that. Use OEM and you will not have a single issue.

Most of the time good used toyota OEM part will outlast 10-20 non-oem brandnew part (example an alternator). Get a good set of axles from a used toyota truck.

My truck has 212K miles and still runs like new. People replace parts assuming the toyota breaks down like other trucks but worst part is they replace a good toyota part with an aftermarket cheap parts.

I agree, clearly all of these issues have not come from the car itself, but parts I've purchased...other than the axle seals and wheel bearings. The availability of used OEM axles was nonexistant when I did this job and was just trying to get it back on the road, in retrospect I probably would've been driving it no problem if I had waited. I found a pair of used rear axles locally for $100, just waiting for a reply, I also managed to find (2) unused Yukon axle shafts for $230 shipped which seems like a really good deal...has anyone had any experience with these? I imagine the quality far surpasses anything I'll get from the parts store.

 

[20024r]

Finally

Finally got my Yukon axles in the mail, couldn't find any OEM near me. Turns out, the rear wheel bearings for 1996-2000 are different than 2001-2002! And therefore the axles are slightly different as well. I couldn't find any information about this, and unfortunately the same parts came up showing 1996-2002 as interchangeable for axles. The earlier style wheel bearing has the same exact dimensions as the late style, aside from missing the beveled lip that's supposed to rest on a lip machined into the axle. Got pissed for a second, went out and bought early style bearings and they fit perfect. Axles are in, just need to reinstall the brakes and drums. Curious if anyone has had to do this as well? Fit 1996-2000 style axles and bearings in a 2001-02 axle housing?

 

[BrianSD_42]

The Tundra upgrade has a huge variety of opinions, I happened to hate how much pedal travel I gained, which most likely was increased tenfold by faulty/misadjusted rear brakes.

I have the Tundra upgrade and I did not notice ANY difference in pedal travel. Are you sure that is even a common side effect vs something specifically wrong with your install, deployment of the TBU?

:bat: