D@#! it Ford.
- Thread starter swampdodo
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Moist
Member
It's odd they won't sell it in the US. Where the SUV's are the most popular.
ElectroBoy
Banned
It’s the diesel engine that the rest of the world is OK with, but the emissions are a problem in the US.
spartacus
Senior Member
It has nothing to do with emissions. Europe has stricter emission standards in some countries but a lot more diesel cars. The automakers by and large don't want to sell diesel by choice. The tax on diesel is higher in the States then Europe that might have something to do with it also.
Humble Leader
Senior Member
it would compete directly with the bronco and even the explorer. I bet it's being sold in markets where those two SUVs don't sell well or aren't sold at all
ElectroBoy
Banned
Yeah, I bet you’re right. Marketing strategy. Diesels are popular in Australia for example and the Bronco isn’t sold there.
Bumbo
New member
I'm no diesel expert, but I hear about stricter emissions standards specifically for diesel trucks.
New generation trucks have EGR and requires DEF - diesel exhaust fluid (I know right) just to stay compliant. Both of which are emission related.
Humble Leader
Senior Member
I do like what ford is doing. I think it makes sense, a body on frame SUV to service a subset of the market. I would imagine body on frame SUVs are quite profitable because they can share the same frames as the pickups
everyone dismissed the body on frame SUV years ago when gas prices started rising. well guess what they haven't stopped rising and those SUVs not only haven't gone anywhere, they are still wildly popular (Jeeps, tahoe, 4runner, etc etc). they are versatile brutes and generally last forever. people will buy them whatever the gas price is. a subset of people will go electric but I don't see an electric competitor to true body on frame SUVs. I'm sure one will come eventually but will anyone be able to afford it? watch, in less than 2 years GMC going to do the same thing
DAW89446
Member
The Rivian pickup looks interesting to me. Last year Motor Trend did a coast to coast off road trip over a designated off road trail in two stock Rivians. Mud, snow, over Rocky Mountain passes, Moab and the like. They performed impressively.
Humble Leader
Senior Member
honestly I really like the idea of electric vehicles. I like the rivian but it isn't cheap. starting at what 70k USD which means about 90k for me. that is just too much coin for me. I get the higher upfront is offset by lower fuel costs, but 90k, that's still more than 95% of the population can afford. I think as production gets more efficient and more charging stations / competitors come to market in the next 5 or so years, electrics may compete with gas vehicles in price
We need to move away from our dependence on fossil fuels and the oil and gas industry. I think this russia/ukraine situation is going to advance that movement. similar to how corona changed the way office people work (unsurprisingly, working remotely leads to happier and more productive employees, who would have thought...)
My hope is that my next truck is an electric. who wouldn't love a truck that has a 0-60 in 3 seconds and can tow 10,000+ lbs AND can offroad. win win win
Jetboy
New member
Fwiw USA diesel emissions are significantly stricter than Europe on NOx and IIRC also pm2.5. European standards are more aggressive on carbon. And the USA also tests for real. Europe generally doesn't perform meaningful testing and it's really easy to chat. Probably by design. So even the euro models that are sold often don't actually meet the euro standards.
IMO all USA emissions diesels suck. So I wouldn't want one even if it were offered. I've yet to see one that's actually reliable with the emissions systems intact.
I think the new ranger being confirmed with the 400hp 3.0 turbo 6 is going to be a real problem for a 270hp 4cyl Tacoma. A similar everest would be a big competitor for the 4R.
IMO all USA emissions diesels suck. So I wouldn't want one even if it were offered. I've yet to see one that's actually reliable with the emissions systems intact.
I think the new ranger being confirmed with the 400hp 3.0 turbo 6 is going to be a real problem for a 270hp 4cyl Tacoma. A similar everest would be a big competitor for the 4R.
DAW89446
Member
It seems that most half ton pick up trucks sold in the US are greatly inflated to well over $50,000 and up into the $70,000 range. Much of that is pur luxury bling, which is very profitable to the auto industry.
I agree that one must weight what is the best value for the individual buyer. Electric cars aren’t free to charge. I have no idea of what it costs at electric charging stations to charge one. Even in my small, isolated rural town there is a Tesla charger and another for other makes. And practical home based charging systems are expensive.
I hear that new technologies is in the works as for batteries. Lithium can be mined in the US, but environmentalists are really going after companies that are gearing up to mine and creating roadblocks. And pose another hurdle to electric vehicle advancement all to the glee of Big Oil Inc.
Otherwise, I could see the Rivian and a Mustang Mach-E as being practical real world alternatives to their gas counterparts in my driveway. But at my age, my ‘18 T4R and ‘12 Subaru Outback hopefully will be my last vehicles. And they’re paid for in full.
I loved my 2010 Touareg TDI and would buy it again in a heartbeat if VW were to bring it back.
I only had a bit under 100k on it when I gave it back to VW but the engine/tran was flawless during that time. I considered keeping it but they damn near paid me to drive it for 8 years I got so much back.
Now, I get that VW wasn't meeting the emissions ratings b/c of how they cheated with the emissions control software to pass the tests - but neither were Daimler/Chrysler, GM, Suzuki, Nissan, and Mitsubishi at that time.
Of course, if VW brought it back it would cost 100k in this market.
Jetboy
New member
The problem I see is that if VW brought back diesels, they'd have to comply with modern emissions standards like you said. And as a result almost categorically throws reliability out the window. So far no one that I'm aware of has been able to build a reliable diesel for passenger cars or light trucks that meet USA emissions standards. Even the very high volume players with huge R&D budgets dumped into this can't make them last. It's just the nature of running 40% of the exhaust of a dirty diesel cycle back through the engine. Until someone finds a way to get the tailpipe emissions down without an EGR and DPF system, I don't think diesels will be reliable options.
My only possible solution would be for a manufacturer to tell the engineers to accept that they are going to be unreliable and design around that fact. So design an entire engine around the principle of being as easy as possible to repair and replace parts. Make things like EGR systems mount is on top with easy bolt on/off entire components that you swap as routine maintenance. Or possible an EGR cooler system designed with ports for a pressurized high detergent chemical flush as part of your oil change process. Use a hot V design with a turbo in the front center that's easy to swap, or an I6 configuration with turbo up front. Put the HPFP in a very easy place to swap with simple hand tools, and make them cheap. Maybe even make the engine with two HPFPs that run in parallel so when one fails the other picks up. Make the injectors and glow plugs install with very easy direct access so swaps are 30 minutes of labor, not 5 hours.
Basically - they'd have to make the engine the exact opposite of modern diesel designs. Then maybe I'd consider one.