Dealership woes...

[mosha20]

I'll start by explaining how my question came about. Being that it is cold out and I had a 10% off coupon, I decided not to change my oil and bring it to the stealership, long story short $30 turned into alot more including new front rotors, pads and calipers. I digress...I also wanted them to do a 5 tire rotation. They call me and say my spare tire carrier is broken and they can't get the spare off to rotate, but they do a 4 tire rotation.

Couple days past, I decide to see what's going on with tire carrier....I get the spare off in no time. So whatever, I then proceed on rotating it to my front passenger side. I don't know if it was because it was cold or the lugs were over torqued but I can't get them off. I use a 5 ft. steel rod for leverage, nothing. So my questions are:

1. Does everyone's spare tire carrier only go down about 1.5-2 ft? I had no problem getting the spare on and off, so I don't understand why they couldn't do it.

2. Does anyone have any tricks on getting overtighten lug nuts off? I refuse to bring it back to the dealership and give them any more money.

Sorry for the long post, any tips or ideas will help greatly. Thanks.


-Mike

 

[jharris2]

For question 1, mine goes all the way to the ground.

For question 2, if a 5-ft. cheater bar can't loosen the lug nuts, then I don't know what would! Do you have access to an impact wrench?

 

[mosha20]

For question 1, mine goes all the way to the ground.

For question 2, if a 5-ft. cheater bar can't loosen the lug nuts, then I don't know what would! Do you have access to an impact wrench?

So it seems as though mine is broken, but still functional so there is no need for my to replace it for $275.

Usually the 5ft steel rod does the trick with minimal force, this time I was really putting some weight on it. I have an impact wrench but it is a small one. You think that will do the trick?

 

[J.A.]

Sorry to hear about your issues. I wouldnt get my oil changed at the dealer if I had a free coupon let alone a 10% off. Thats just from experience over the last 10 years of hearing the problems people have getting a simople oil change. With the price of oil nowadays and the shipping fees on having a Toyota filter sent out I dont even save much DIY, but it is worth it for peace of mind. I've heard all the horror stories of people having their skid plate bolts stripped out, oil plug not tightened enough, scratches to paint/interior when the dealer moves the vehicle, etc. Not worth it imho.

Regarding the tire rotation, same thing there as well. I have free lifetime tire rotations on both rigs but will and have never used it. Since they use the air gun to tighten the lug nuts (never in the recommended star pattern of course) there have been reports of warped rotors, scratched center caps, etc. Again, not worth it.

Like jharris said, use a cheater bar such as a long pipe over the wrench, but be careful as the lugs appear to break easily.

 

[mosha20]

Sorry to hear about your issues. I wouldnt get my oil changed at the dealer if I had a free coupon let alone a 10% off. Thats just from experience over the last 10 years of hearing the problems people have getting a simople oil change. With the price of oil nowadays and the shipping fees on having a Toyota filter sent out I dont even save much DIY, but it is worth it for peace of mind. I've heard all the horror stories of people having their skid plate bolts stripped out, oil plug not tightened enough, scratches to paint/interior when the dealer moves the vehicle, etc. Not worth it imho.

Regarding the tire rotation, same thing there as well. I have free lifetime tire rotations on both rigs but will and have never used it. Since they use the air gun to tighten the lug nuts (never in the recommended star pattern of course) there have been reports of warped rotors, scratched center caps, etc. Again, not worth it.

Like jharris said, use a cheater bar such as a long pipe over the wrench, but be careful as the lugs appear to break easily.

Ya, I now know that I will not be taking my rig anywhere, can't trust them. Also, I tried the cheater bar yesterday, threw my weight on it and not a thing happened. Actually it felt like my socket wrench was about to snap in half. I have those weird Acorn lugs, not the stock lugs (since the stocks don't fit with my new wheels), I'm not sure if those are readily available, so I'd prefer not to break them. I guess I could give the torque wrench a try and see what happens. Last resort might be to take it back and make them loosen and do it right.

 

[G.I.G.]

I've heard all the horror stories of people having their skid plate bolts stripped out, oil plug not tightened enough, scratches to paint/interior when the dealer moves the vehicle, etc. Not worth it imho.

This was done by my dealer when I brought my 4R in to have a simple TSB performed on my stereo....

Yeah, most dealers suck. Plain and simple. Obviously some are better than others, but why take your chances. That's not to say there aren't some bad shops out there too. My wife brought her Highlander for an alignment check into a local tire and service shop that I've had good experiences with. They told her that the bolts they needed to adjust her alignment were rusted tight and that she needed $800 in parts to fix it. I told her to take it to another shop and they had no problem adjusting her alignment.

I agree with J.A. Do as much service on your vehicle yourself and when something comes up that you can't tackle yourself, take it to a reputable, reliable shop. Avoid the stealerships if you can....

 

[mosha20]

This was done by my dealer when I brought my 4R in to have a simple TSB performed on my stereo....

Yeah, most dealers suck. Plain and simple. Obviously some are better than others, but why take your chances. That's not to say there aren't some bad shops out there too. My wife brought her Highlander for an alignment check into a local tire and service shop that I've had good experiences with. They told her that the bolts they needed to adjust her alignment were rusted tight and that she needed $800 in parts to fix it. I told her to take it to another shop and they had no problem adjusting her alignment.

I agree with J.A. Do as much service on your vehicle yourself and when something comes up that you can't tackle yourself, take it to a reputable, reliable shop. Avoid the stealerships if you can....

Damn, hopefully they paid for that damage (why do I get the feeling they gave you a hard time about it). Ya normally I'm all for trying to tackle everything myself (with some help). Figures the only time I take it in I have to deal with some issues, not suprising I guess.

Any other tips or suggestions about the lugs?

 

[simple]

Question 1, you sir, have a 3 inch lift. But that will affect the distance your cable travels. I have a 2in lift, and I'm pretty sure mine doesn't go all the way to the ground, but it comes fairly close. If you can get it on and off with no problem, then whats the problem?? I'm not saying its not broken, but your rear is higher than the average.

And I agree with JA. Unless there is something that I feel I can't handle, I'm doing it myself. And there's so many helpful tutorial threads on here and on different pages.

 

[mosha20]

Question 1, you sir, have a 3 inch lift. But that will affect the distance your cable travels. I have a 2in lift, and I'm pretty sure mine doesn't go all the way to the ground, but it comes fairly close. If you can get it on and off with no problem, then whats the problem?? I'm not saying its not broken, but your rear is higher than the average.

And I agree with JA. Unless there is something that I feel I can't handle, I'm doing it myself. And there's so many helpful tutorial threads on here and on different pages.

Very true the rear is high, however the spare tire never hit the ground even without the lift. The problem isn't with me, it is with the dealership, they said they couldn't get the spare off therefore they couldn't rotate it. I, on the other hand, can get the spare off but my lug nuts do not budge (due to the dealership overtightening them), that's where I have a problem. If I can't loosen the lugs, the wheel does not come off, which means no rotation and will cause me problems. Hence my second question :bash:.

 

[sheik]

So bring it into a warm garage for a few hours and let everything warm up and then try the lugs. If you don't have a heated garage, maybe a friend or family member does?

As cold as it's been up in my area (-22 without the windchill on Saturday night) I would fully expect to encounter issues trying to get the lugs off of my rig.

 

[scottm]

Stop!!! A five foot wrench isn't taking them off? Multiply your weight by five, that's a huge amount of torque, it's amazing they didn't break. 1000 ft-lbs maybe? Those wheel studs are under an enormous load, they are much closer to failing than if they were properly torqued. Normal 100 ft-lb or so puts maybe 10% of their maximum force on them. Hard cornering adds force, bringing them up to maybe 40%. Your wheel studs are at near limits now, how much extra cornering force do you think it'll take to snap them off?

Don't try to take those lugnuts off yourself, take it back, talk to the service manager. Have them measure the current torque with a torque wrench, then have them inspected and torqued by hand. Bring your own torque wrench if you have one. It'll be helpful to know how hard they were torqued.

If the threads feel rough instead of smooth, they're stretched and strength has been severely compromised. You should be able to turn the nuts on easily by hand until they hit the wheel. If not, try cleaning the threads with a brush and blowing out the nut to make sure there's no debris there. If you can't turn them on by hand, there's something wrong. If they want to clean the threads with a thread file or thread die, that will hide the fact that the studs are damaged, weakened, and need to be replaced. The studs are cheap, not hard to replace, but might take some time to pull the hub to do it.

Even if the threads feel all-right, overtorquing to this level can still do some damage and weaken the studs. The service manager should hear your complaint.

If you can't be a **** about this, bring someone who can. This is a serious safety issue. Personally, I'd take it to a competing dealer or trusted mechanic, someone who isn't motivated to hide any damage. And send the original dealership the bill.

 

[Nuke]

I'd suspect your studs are shot. I had a dealer damage the studs on my 2nd gen by overtightening. I made them replace the studs all the way around. They weren't happy about it but they were glad to get the nut job that was standing in the showroom (me) bellowing about how lousey their maintenance dept was out ASAP.

 

[Maz]

So bring it into a warm garage for a few hours and let everything warm up and then try the lugs. If you don't have a heated garage, maybe a friend or family member does?

That's what I was thinking a warm garage might do wonders. This may sound silly but what about some penetrating oil and a hair dryer on full blast hear? Is it possible the oil along with warming things up would break the seal on your lugs?

 

[wombie]

Take it back to the stealer, and get the service manager and shop foreman out to look at your truck, and insist they undo the lugs and redo them infront of you. At least that's what I'd do.

And to add to the list of 'crappy dealer' stories. I took mine in for a paint repair job under warranty. The bodyshop the dealer used managed to overspray the entire truck, get grease and paint on the inside of the tailgate and the cargo cover, scratch up the bumper, and even get blood (yes blood) on the inside of the truck. Not to mention shop dust rubbish all over the inside of the drivers door and floor of the truck.

Needless to say I very nearly spontaneously combusted with rage.

 

[mosha20]

Stop!!! A five foot wrench isn't taking them off? Multiply your weight by five, that's a huge amount of torque, it's amazing they didn't break. 1000 ft-lbs maybe? Those wheel studs are under an enormous load, they are much closer to failing than if they were properly torqued. Normal 100 ft-lb or so puts maybe 10% of their maximum force on them. Hard cornering adds force, bringing them up to maybe 40%. Your wheel studs are at near limits now, how much extra cornering force do you think it'll take to snap them off?

Don't try to take those lugnuts off yourself, take it back, talk to the service manager. Have them measure the current torque with a torque wrench, then have them inspected and torqued by hand. Bring your own torque wrench if you have one. It'll be helpful to know how hard they were torqued.

If the threads feel rough instead of smooth, they're stretched and strength has been severely compromised. You should be able to turn the nuts on easily by hand until they hit the wheel. If not, try cleaning the threads with a brush and blowing out the nut to make sure there's no debris there. If you can't turn them on by hand, there's something wrong. If they want to clean the threads with a thread file or thread die, that will hide the fact that the studs are damaged, weakened, and need to be replaced. The studs are cheap, not hard to replace, but might take some time to pull the hub to do it.

Even if the threads feel all-right, overtorquing to this level can still do some damage and weaken the studs. The service manager should hear your complaint.

If you can't be a **** about this, bring someone who can. This is a serious safety issue. Personally, I'd take it to a competing dealer or trusted mechanic, someone who isn't motivated to hide any damage. And send the original dealership the bill.

That is a very good point. I will definitely take it somewhere tomorrow (after calling the dealer and complaining) and have them take a look at it. Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

I'd suspect your studs are shot. I had a dealer damage the studs on my 2nd gen by overtightening. I made them replace the studs all the way around. They weren't happy about it but they were glad to get the nut job that was standing in the showroom (me) bellowing about how lousey their maintenance dept was out ASAP.

I will most likely be doing the same tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

Take it back to the stealer, and get the service manager and shop foreman out to look at your truck, and insist they undo the lugs and redo them infront of you. At least that's what I'd do.

And to add to the list of 'crappy dealer' stories. I took mine in for a paint repair job under warranty. The bodyshop the dealer used managed to overspray the entire truck, get grease and paint on the inside of the tailgate and the cargo cover, scratch up the bumper, and even get blood (yes blood) on the inside of the truck. Not to mention shop dust rubbish all over the inside of the drivers door and floor of the truck.

Needless to say I very nearly spontaneously combusted with rage.

Wow, it's unbelievable how poorly some of these dealerships treat their customer's trucks. The funny thing is that I heard a commercial on the radio about this dealership saying how great their service department was, not true at all.

Hopefully you got all that straightened out.

 

[G.I.G.]

Damn, hopefully they paid for that damage (why do I get the feeling they gave you a hard time about it). Ya normally I'm all for trying to tackle everything myself (with some help). Figures the only time I take it in I have to deal with some issues, not suprising I guess.

Any other tips or suggestions about the lugs?

They actually took care of my quite well considering the circumstances. Ironically, the body shop they took it to backed it into another car after they had fixed it. So it got banged up twice but that's a whole 'nother story.....:bash:

I would try applying as much heat as you can to the lug. Normally I wouldn't recomend heat, as heat expands metal making it potentially more difficult to break free. But if you have any kind of crap, crud, or corrosion keeping that lug on there, the heat might help break it free. If you have a hair dryer, or better yet, a heat gun, spend a good five or 10 minutes on there with it then give it hell with the wrench and breaker bar.

Also, it sounds kind of crude, but any kind of hammer action on the breaker bar with a hammer or mallet might help break it free.

 

[rook]

Do not mess with the lugs any further. Return to the dealer that jacked the wheels on with a gun. If you take it somewhere else or do it yourself, it is likely thay you will break a couple of wheel studs. It really is the dealers responsibility to make this right.

As for the spare tire carrier, take the tire down and see if you can work the cable mechanism free. Try some penetrating oil in the holes. I have a lift and it lowers to about an inch from the ground.

BTW, what dealer did you take the truck to?

 

[mosha20]

Do not mess with the lugs any further. Return to the dealer that jacked the wheels on with a gun. If you take it somewhere else or do it yourself, it is likely thay you will break a couple of wheel studs. It really is the dealers responsibility to make this right.

As for the spare tire carrier, take the tire down and see if you can work the cable mechanism free. Try some penetrating oil in the holes. I have a lift and it lowers to about an inch from the ground.

BTW, what dealer did you take the truck to?

Thanks for the info rook, I'm going to call them tomorrow and have them right the problem. I will also give the spare tire carrier a look at this weekend to see if I can get it free.

I took the truck to Woburn Toyota down in MA, I work across the street but I would not recommend them to anyone. Since you live in ME you probably wouldn't be traveling down there soon, where in ME are you?

 

[rook]

Thanks for the info rook, I'm going to call them tomorrow and have them right the problem. I will also give the spare tire carrier a look at this weekend to see if I can get it free.

I took the truck to Woburn Toyota down in MA, I work across the street but I would not recommend them to anyone. Since you live in ME you probably wouldn't be traveling down there soon, where in ME are you?

I live in Searsport, on the coast where the Penobscot River opens up to the Atlantic. I grew up in Andover, MA so I'm familiar with the area, having made the 128 commute in the past. I don't miss that!

 

[mosha20]

I live in Searsport, on the coast where the Penobscot River opens up to the Atlantic. I grew up in Andover, MA so I'm familiar with the area, having made the 128 commute in the past. I don't miss that!

That's funny, I grew up in Tewksbury and currently I'm in Portsmouth, NH making that very same commute. Miserable, I'm taking my truck back to the dealership today to have them fix their problems, I'll keep everyone informed.