Death knell for the Xterra. Is the 4Runner soon to follow?

[Lester Lugnut]

I wonder if CAFE standards play a part in an auto mfgs. decision to keep/drop a particular vehicle?

 

[STX4Runner]

I said this in another thread, but the vast majority of 4Runner owners could do everything they do in a Highlander or Sequoia, and the ones that actually need/want a proper truck/SUV and don't like the Tacoma can look to the GX or a Land Cruiser. Fact is, the 4Runner is in a horrible spot in Toyotas lineup, almost everything it offers can be done by better by another member of the fleet. The only thing keeping the 4Runner viable is that it looks slightly different than all those other options, and those looks may not be enough to keep it alive. Especially not if Toyota wants to move it to a unibody and/or fully independant platform anyway, which is likely.

I don't want a Tacoma because I like having a fully enclosed vehicle for security and to keep my stuff out of the weather. Plus, I would need a 4 door Tacoma to mimic the passenger carraying ability of the 4Runner, but then you end up with a reeeally long vehicle that is nowhere as nimble as a 4Runner off road. I've also never liked how Tacomas (and other midsize trucks for that matter) seem to be heavily marketed to the "bro" crowd. As for switching over to a GX or Land Cruiser, the price of those is not anywhere near a 4Runner, so that's a no go for me.

I think (hope) the killing of the FJ is good news for the future of the BOF 4Runner as Toyota now has one small/midsize BOF SUV as opposed to two. I've also read that Toyota planned on the FJ only being a short production run anyway and not having multiple generations.

 

[aspade]

CAFE plays a huge part in determining the lineup, where do you think all the V8s went? The standards that Obama's ugly lesbians at the EPA came up with and are in the process of phasing in are extremely harsh on small trucks.

For 2020, a 4Runner sized vehicle is required to score 44 unadjusted MPG. A Tacoma would only need to score 37. And it only gets worse from there. For 2025, a 4Runner would need to score 55 MPG (!!!) while a Tacoma could get away with 46.

For point of reference, the 4R we get now, gutless and dead throttle and no 4.30s and all scores all of 29.5 MPG.

There will be a 4Runner because the Prado is sold around the world in markets not burdened with our green nazis, but the one that they sell here can't remain a $35,000 mainstream vehicle that moves 100,000 + copies a year since that'd ruin the CAFE averages. A 4Runner is going to be a niche low volume product ala Raptor and it's going to cost $50,000+ to keep that volume low.

The rest of us can have a Rav4 hybrid.

 

[jrandom]

The thing is that the Xterra was never meant to compete with the 4Runner when it came out, that's what the Pathfinder was for. It's just that the list of BOF vehicles has dwindled so rapidly in the past decade(not to mention the neutering of the Pathfinder) that they became more similar than not. The 4Runner was more luxurious and refined than the much cheaper and torsion bar/leaf sprung Xterra.

Yeah, sure I realize I know the direct competitor was the Pathfinder before they went on urban mall-asized monobody, really f'd that one up! Sure Xterra was meant to meet the needs of the adventurous 20-somethings, that was whom it was marketed too anyway, a market that at the time of its realease was mostly JK, earlier gen T4R's, and Pathfinders.

I never know what Toyota is thinking, because they made a dumbass statement about a year ago about having a commitment to BOF SUVs, then promptly killed the FJ Cruiser not long afterwards.

Yeah but just in the US market, they are still in production, much like the coveted LC 70 series. Right? Yes I do agree with you about the US marketeering. IMHO you should be able to buy anything they make straight from the factory, I mean geesuz this is year 2015 we were supposed to be in f'n flying cars by now and you still can't click and order whatever you want when it comes to a new car/truck. Sad really.

 

[KiruxaT4R]

I can totally see Toyota going to unibody for 4Runner in the future. The market dictates what people want and Toyota is not a Land Rover/Range Rover classy automaker. They want volume.
This is no different than 80 series losing the solid axles and 100 series becoming IFS. I've owned both 80 and 100 series and I cant say one is better than the other, they both have pros and cons. Although 4Runner losing its BOF or being axed all together will be a sad day. In fact, when that happens I don't know if I will want to own a Toyota anymore.....
As far as jumping to Tacoma, I don't think its the same as 4Runner at all. I mean, yes frame, power train, size is the same but that's a about it.
The sitting position is different so is the interior. Im 6'2" and wouldn't want to spend more than 20 min in the back of a Tacoma crew cab. Also, Tacoma provide very little storage space in the cab compared to 4Runner. The finishes are not of the same quality either (although I have touched the 2015 model line up yet).
Then comes the box, which is not the same as having secured, dry space but that's a personal choice.
Also I've heard Tacomas are bad for body flex? Not too sure. Either way though Tacoma is still a great truck.

I will tell you this and I believe this is the problem not just with Xterra/4Runner/Tacoma/FJ etc. but many other vehicles.......we live in North America. These *******s kill everything and anything that is fun/rare/specialized/different in automotive industry. People seem to just give up and say **** it ill drive silver, AWD, nitrogen filled, half-electric bullshit, 3 row seat, 10 air bag, no personality and no soul, sealed engine bay, totally predictable crossover/car/SUV to the nearest mall.

/endrant.

 

[Jernik]

while the rest of the mall crawler crowd will be better served with the fuel economy and car-like ride and dynamics of a crossover.

Problem is, I don't like or want a car-like ride in my SUV/Truck. Maybe I've not ridden in the right vehicles, but the unibodies (with the exception of our old WJ Grand Cherokee) seem to ride rougher with more road noise transferred into the cabin.

I bought a new truck a few weeks ago, and got a GMC Terrain as a loaner when I took it in to have some agreed-upon-as-part-of-the-sale accessories installed. Granted, it's a bit smaller and much lower than the 4Runner, but it rode and handled like a small economy car. Felt everything in/on the road, and was noisy/rough in comparison. Ride was not smooth or comfortable for a long haul. I recall the test drive in the new Grand Cherokee was similar. While much better than the Terrain, it was still a bit harsh and transmitted more road noise into the cabin. More so than I recall the WJ Grand Cherokee did.

Don't get me wrong, a stiff ride and lots of noise is great in a sports car, but not what I want in a SUV/Wagon for cross country excursions.

 

[jwkilgore]

I said this in another thread, but the vast majority of 4Runner owners could do everything they do in a Highlander or Sequoia, and the ones that actually need/want a proper truck/SUV and don't like the Tacoma can look to the GX or a Land Cruiser. Fact is, the 4Runner is in a horrible spot in Toyotas lineup, almost everything it offers can be done by better by another member of the fleet. The only thing keeping the 4Runner viable is that it looks slightly different than all those other options, and those looks may not be enough to keep it alive. Especially not if Toyota wants to move it to a unibody and/or fully independant platform anyway, which is likely.

Not even close... IMO it's in an excellent spot in the lineup. Right in the sweet spot. All the other models have huge issues that the 4Runner fixes perfectly.

FJ: Limited interior space, poor visibility, not as comfortable.
Rav4: Limited interior space, can't do real 4WD off-road
Highlander: Can't do real 4WD off-road
Sienna: Can't do real 4WD off-road
Sequoia: Too freaking big
Land Cruiser: Too freaking expensive
Tacoma: Not enough dry/secure cargo space, and either not enough passenger room or else longer than an ocean liner

If any of them are "in a horrible spot" it's the Highlander. I realize that most Americans are obsessed with looks and hate the "soccer mom" image. Other than looks, I honestly cannot think of a single reason why anyone would pick a Highlander over a Sienna.

Yes, the FJ does better off-road; the Highlander is better on the highway; the Rav4 has better fuel economy, and the Sienna and Sequoia have more interior space. If you want a vehicle purely for those reasons, then get something else.

The Land Cruiser does beat the 4Runner in almost every metric; the problem there is cost. Most people simply cannot afford an $80k+ vehicle when the 4Runner is $35k.

The 4Runner is the only "all of the above" vehicle available.

 

[bernardmwrangle]

Good riddance the Xterra is a total dog. I owned one before buying the Trail, transmission failed because of a defect in the radiator/coolant leaking into tranny, Nissan refused to fix it because I was 1,500 miles over their extended defect warranty, was very happy to be rid of it.

 

[invisible4Runner]

This should be no surprise - Nissan has not done anything to it for years to keep up with the times. It's been the neglected black sheep of the lineup for a while.

 

[KidVermicious]

Not even close... IMO it's in an excellent spot in the lineup. Right in the sweet spot.

Right in the sweet spot... for you. Who happens to be a 4Runner owner, 4Runner enthusiast, on a 4Runner board. Read for comprehension and you'll see that I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the majority of 4Runner owners. Who don't do anything like what we do with their 4Runners. Hell, I bet nine out of ten guys on this board with 4th or 5th gen trucks don't ever do anything a minivan couldn't do. For them, the 4Runner isn't necessary, and since they're the ones buying most of the 4Runners, they're the ones Toyota is looking at when they make decisions.

 

[fourwd1]

Just read today that Nissan is dropping the Xterra after the 2015 model year, which leaves the 4Runner as the only mid-sized body on frame SUV around.
Should we be worried, or is the small group of off-roaders and soccer moms enough to keep the 4R going?

You're behind the times, there's been a thread on this in the General Discussion section for days, and another months ago.
And speaking of the General section, that's where this belongs.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

CAFE plays a huge part in determining the lineup, where do you think all the V8s went? The standards that Obama's ugly lesbians at the EPA came up with and are in the process of phasing in are extremely harsh on small trucks.

For 2020, a 4Runner sized vehicle is required to score 44 unadjusted MPG. A Tacoma would only need to score 37. And it only gets worse from there. For 2025, a 4Runner would need to score 55 MPG (!!!) while a Tacoma could get away with 46.

For point of reference, the 4R we get now, gutless and dead throttle and no 4.30s and all scores all of 29.5 MPG.

There will be a 4Runner because the Prado is sold around the world in markets not burdened with our green nazis, but the one that they sell here can't remain a $35,000 mainstream vehicle that moves 100,000 + copies a year since that'd ruin the CAFE averages. A 4Runner is going to be a niche low volume product ala Raptor and it's going to cost $50,000+ to keep that volume low.

The rest of us can have a Rav4 hybrid.

Makes you wonder when we get into the 2020-2025 timeframe if some sort of "Big Hog" penalty will be assessed to those of us still driving 5th Gen 4Runners and other types of larger/less fuel efficient vehicles?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You're right, two completely different trucks. The Xterra has always been small, nimble, and truck based, while the 4Runner has suffered from bloat and "feature" creep in it's 4th and 5th generations.

If it weren't a Nissan, I'd have an Xterra right now, it's much closer to what the 4Runner should be IMO.

Well, we can agree to disagree. My sons late model Xterra? Was a POS. He traded it in after only a year. I hated it. He hated it.

I love my 2015 Trail and find it quite nimble so I ain't complaining. If I wanted a Jeep, I'd buy a Jeep, not a 4Runner.

 

[KidVermicious]

Well, we can agree to disagree. My sons late model Xterra? Was a POS. He traded it in after only a year. I hated it. He hated it.

I don't think we disagree. I said I'd have one if it weren't a Nissan .

 

[gm350reratliff]

Makes you wonder when we get into the 2020-2025 timeframe if some sort of "Big Hog" penalty will be assessed to those of us still driving 5th Gen 4Runners and other types of larger/less fuel efficient vehicles?

Unfortunately, I do see this as a possibility. We will all be driving the same cookie cutter econo box. It won't really matter though. By then, the feds will outlaw going off-road and shut down the trails.

 

[amalik]

I don't think we disagree. I said I'd have one if it weren't a Nissan .

Kevin... all this Nissan hate?

Have you seen a GTR? lol :cheer2:

 

[qs933]

I'm confident that we'll see a next-gen 4Runner in 2017/2018 -- however, I'm thinking it may be more "heavy refresh" than total redesign, similar to the '14 Tundra.

With the lower volume FJ and Venza crossover cut, there appears to be ample room in the Toyota truck lineup for a higher-margin niche vehicle like the 4Runner.

The model I'd be worried about is the Lexus GX. One Lexus exec has publicly stated that a big regret of his is not having a three-row crossover in the lineup (they focused their development resources on the RC coupe instead). I'd bet on a new model filling that gap before a redesigned GX.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I'm confident that we'll see a next-gen 4Runner in 2017/2018 -- however, I'm thinking it may be more "heavy refresh" than total redesign, similar to the '14 Tundra.

With the lower volume FJ and Venza crossover cut, there appears to be ample room in the Toyota truck lineup for a higher-margin niche vehicle like the 4Runner.

The model I'd be worried about is the Lexus GX. One Lexus exec has publicly stated that a big regret of his is not having a three-row crossover in the lineup (they focused their development resources on the RC coupe instead). I'd bet on a new model filling that gap before a redesigned GX.

Far as I know, the GX is being dropped for a 3-Row Crossover called the TX.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Makes you wonder when we get into the 2020-2025 timeframe if some sort of "Big Hog" penalty will be assessed to those of us still driving 5th Gen 4Runners and other types of larger/less fuel efficient vehicles?

Unfortunately, I do see this as a possibility. We will all be driving the same cookie cutter econo box. It won't really matter though. By then, the feds will outlaw going off-road and shut down the trails.

To add to this, I wouldn't be surprised if the gooberment tried to pass something like this on us as an attempt to thwart those like me who will probably only buy used once the real high mpg requirements kick in.

 

[Unner]

These *******s kill everything and anything that is fun/rare/specialized/different in automotive industry. People seem to just give up and say **** it ill drive silver, AWD, nitrogen filled, half-electric bullshit, 3 row seat, 10 air bag, no personality and no soul, sealed engine bay, totally predictable crossover/car/SUV to the nearest mall.

Same way that I feel. No one seems to care what they drive, so long as they can say it is new and cost them X amount of dollars that they financed for X years at whatever ridiculous rate.