Deep Snow Tire Experience?

[DesertCanyons]

Snow tires & getting out

I think there area lot of liars in this thread. I have driven in deep snow for 35 years. Every winter we get several big snows.

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22"+ of snow means you are walking. Sure you can blast through a drift for a few feet but we are talking about continuous driving of untouched snow. I have had to park the vehicle at this depth and walk the last 1/2 mile home. The drag from the snow becomes higher than the vehicle's tractive effort and you spin. 22" is up on the doors. ...

Now, snow in the west is different. Less moisture content means the snow is dry and powder and has much less drag than the heavy wet snow we get here in the east. I would think you could go through a lot deeper snow out there.

Now here's the problem: You have a wide tire with lots of sipes. How does that work when you hit hard packed snow that has turned to ice? Not well. Now a narrow tire works best with a winter tire tread and lots of sipes. You want a higher ground pressure.
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Greg,

Good words of wisdom in your post. No one should risk being stranded alone in the kinds of snow I'm reading about here.

At 22" are you talking about traction under your winter boots or your tires? Because yea, you're not driving very far in snow that deep. You'll want to have your snow shoes or cross country skis in the truck for this kind of walking.

So at the risk of sounding like a neophyte, what's a sipe? :tongue:

Somehow I thought you were living in the PNW area, near Seattle. Did you move to Southern Appalachian region?

 

[1engineer]

Greg,

Good words of wisdom in your post. No one should risk being stranded alone in the kinds of snow I'm reading about here.

At 22" are you talking about traction under your winter boots or your tires? Because yea, you're not driving very far in snow that deep. You'll want to have your snow shoes or cross country skis in the truck for this kind of walking.

So at the risk of sounding like a neophyte, what's a sipe? :tongue:

Somehow I thought you were living in the PNW area, near Seattle. Did you move to Southern Appalachian region?

I've traveled extensively across the world and the Americas but always lived here in the mountains. I live 15 minutes from a ski resort, 20 minutes from world class whitewater, 10 minutes away from great climbing spots and I just ride across the street to access miles and miles of mountain bike trails from green to double black.

The OP said driving in deep snow. To me that means being the first one to drive in that specific snow. It's not deep snow if someone has driven through it before you and you are following tracks.

A sipe is simply a small groove or cut in the tread. The more sipes you have, the better your vehicle will go in snow and ice. Why? Because as your tires make contact with the ground, the tread deforms a bit. If you have lots of small grooves in the tread then each one of the edges of the sipe will deform and act like miniature cleats that will give you better traction. That, combined with a soft tire compound will allow even more tread deformity when it contacts the ground which will give you even better traction. Add to that a lower tire pressure and now you have the best situation you can have with the exception of studs or chains.
The only real problem of running a high siped and soft tire is wear. These tires will only get about 20K miles before needing to be replaced, hence that is why they are mostly winter tires only. A good AT tire attempts to bridge this gap by offering some siping, a decent tread block and a medium tire compound. Hope this helps. Oh, here's a pic to help with my explanation:

 

[DesertCanyons]

Sipes and snow

Thanks Greg,
I appreciate the explanation.

It sounds like you live in paradise. We have most of that here but I have to drive 15 minutes or more to get into the local San Gabriel Mountains. I went hiking up there yesterday afternoon until well after sunset. It got a bit cool after dark, walking out by 1st quarter moon light, but not bad. At around 3400 feet asl I had 3 layers of thin shirts on, no coat at about 50 F (10C). Lows in the 40s here in town.

 

[jasonv]

You shouldn't, and when the fawk did I say you should? Don't call me out and then put words in my mouth.

I'm just objecting to the idea that "everyone knows Duratracs are awesome". I spent the extra money on Duratracs because "everyone knows they're awesome", and they definitely aren't.

1. theres no "calling out" you dramatic lunatic

2. when a person posts anything they are "selling" their opinion. you obviously felt strong enough to battle the preexisting opinion, yet you don't want anyone to consider your opinion?

3. readjust your tampon

4, duratracs aren't overly expensive

 

[KidVermicious]

yet you don't want anyone to consider your opinion?

And again, when the **** did I say that? I don't know what your deal is, but tell the voices in your head to stop making you pick fights with imaginary posts.

 

[Titanpat57]

1. theres no "calling out" you dramatic lunatic...kid has a point...

2. when a person posts anything they are "selling" their opinion. you obviously felt strong enough to battle the preexisting opinion, yet you don't want anyone to consider your opinion? I do happen to trust @KidVermicious opinion...he wheels the balls off everything he owns..

3. readjust your tampon...again, the kid has another point..

4, duratracs aren't overly expensive for what you get, yes they are. Anybody wheeling these generally never wheels them again

.........

 

[Orbital Debris]

To the original question, I put on Michelin Xi2 Xice in 265/70R17 in mid November. They replaced the stock Bridgestone 20" duelers which had 48k and two previous winters on.
This week we got our first good snowfall of 8-10 inches followed by 3 days below freezing. Not 18 inches, but I have been trying out the Xice on every unplowed and packed parking lot I can find. They are excellent and I was able to go through unplowed 8-12 inches with no loss of traction.(as others noted, I'm pushing snow with the front at more than 10" in the drifts and plow piles) They turn well with minimal understeer on packed snow, and stop within reason on icy areas.

So far they have performed excellently in the mixed deep and icy conditions I have encountered so far.

 

[nevada]

his opinion. your opinion. why would we weight either opinion higher than the other? no one has presented any evidence.

other than picture evidence right?

You shouldn't, and when the fawk did I say you should? Don't call me out and then put words in my mouth.

I'm just objecting to the idea that "everyone knows Duratracs are awesome". I spent the extra money on Duratracs because "everyone knows they're awesome", and they definitely aren't.

IMO, the only good tire goodyear ever put out was the MTR.

 

[trex9K]

I think there area lot of liars in this thread. I have driven in deep snow for 35 years. Every winter we get several big snows.

I have driven in deep snow for decades but in my area we get more than a few big storms, literally many hundreds of inches per season.

 

[02SE]

I'm not going to get into a particular tire being best in Snow. There are too many variables for that. Not the least of which is the consistency (Ie: water content) of the snow.

The area where I've lived for most of my life, is renowned for it's powder. This stuff is relatively easy to drive in.

Now this week we got a decent snowstorm of a bit over 2 feet, but it was heavy snow with a high water content. This stuff is much harder to drive in.

So before anyone can recommend a particular size and style of tire, we really need to know the type and condition of the Snow.

 

[Wild Duck]

Was that the very grippy type of snow?

Yes, it was light dry and very cold out so it was easy to plow through. We spent two days in the Ochocos in Central Oregon but some South facing roads were melting and slick but the AT's handled it all very well. Lots of siping on these tires.

 

[FJ40zen]

There are a lot of good answers here. We do a lot of snow runs here in Northern Colorado and there are numerous conditions that can be experienced at different times of the year. In early December, there is usually ice beneath the snow and tons of powder on top that usually require siping or studs to grip the bottom. This is especially true on hill climbs. There always seems to be a sheet of water running down the trail that gets pretty slick.

In the spring, however, the snow is rather deep and has been through warming stages throughout the winter that may be layered enough to hold the weight of the vehicle. In these cases, low tire pressure with large voids and creeping seem to work great. Running too fast can break through and cause the vehicle to become high centered.

I am assuming "Concrete Snow" is a frozen version of a heavy, wet snowfall cooled off, like our late spring/early summer snowpack, so I think the low pressure with large voids and low gearing would be excellent for that type of condition.

 

[trex9K]

I am assuming "Concrete Snow" is a frozen version of a heavy, wet snowfall cooled off, like our late spring/early summer snowpack, so I think the low pressure with large voids and low gearing would be excellent for that type of condition.

Sierra Cement and Cascade Concrete is the moisture laden snow that falls in Northern California and up into the PNW. Its has the consistency of freshly mixed cement.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Sierra Cement and Cascade Concrete is the moisture laden snow that falls in Northern California and up into the PNW. Its has the consistency of freshly mixed cement.

I can vouch for that, stuff can drag you down pretty damn good. Though it's been a drought so maybe it's a bit more fluffy now?

I haven't had too much trouble with my LT285/70R17 Nitto Terra Grapplers last time I played in the snow (plan to hit up the Tahoe area this weekend), they've been a pretty good AT and live up to that "All Terrain" monkier pretty well for me.

Though in the future I am thinking either 35" Toyo Open Country MTs or their newer RT (the RT gets better scores in snow than the MT.)

Speaking of bead locks this looks interesting.

How the Coyote Enterprises, Dual, Internal, Pneumatic Beadlock works

What an interesting concept....

 

[Jhalko]

It still snows in CA? I thought they said that would never happen again.

I have Duratracs now, I like them, but then I have a great Goodyear shop that does honest quality work, so I stick with them. They were slightly better in the recent snowstorm over the Silent Armors I had before which I loved. I got around on the stock Duelers for awhile though, I try not to drive stupid in snow, which seems to make the biggest difference.

 

[trex9K]

Has anyone tried running dedicated snows such as the Blizzak or Xice aired down for the deeper stuff?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So went with [MENTION=106195]v_man[/MENTION] up to the South Lake Tahoe area and played a bit on the Emigrant Trail and highway 88 today. First off I'm extremely jealous of his 37's.

Second, I found that my Nitto Terra Grapplers (about half worn-ish at about 7~8/32" and they're about 4 years old to give you an idea of their condition) did well in the firmer snow and some of the more "sticky" stuff. But today much of the snow was very fluffy, light, and didn't clump up very well (at least the large majority of the sections we drove on were like this). I aired down the E-Load LT285/70R17 tires to about 15psi each to get some better float going on since the handful of times I got stuck it was because I lost momentum and partially high centered myself on a bunch of snow.

I had the torque to pull myself out (had some MaxTraxxs with me), but most of the time I found that the Nitto's just couldn't get a good bite/traction to do so (was having a bit of trouble getting the Maxtraxx's under the tires so I had to bust out the snatch strap half the time for tension/light pull). The MTs on V_Man's vehicle did well, but also had a couple times were the fluff was just a bit too much and he was getting bogged down (a couple times I wondered if all he needed was a bit more torque, because he had all the right ingredients, 37" Aggressively treaded MTs, Lockers front & rear, good ground clearance; easily a good inch or two above mine from Diff to ground).

So while I like my Nittos and they do well on firmer snow and partially compacted snow (they did well in spots where the snow was a bit stickier), I found that I had to use momentum to get through deeper sections (was actually a bit funny because most of the time I was in 4Lo, when I threw it in 4Hi and got some speed I was able to get out of some deeper spots through sheer momentum and application of thee throttle.) ATRAC was not helping much and in some cases fighting me pretty hard (I think part of the problem is that my brakes are partially glazed up from a while ago; am planning on more aggressive pads and rotors in the future.)

I'm definitely more determined to get my 35" Toyo MT or RT set-up after seeing the limitations of the Nittos, I want a bit more traction in the deeper snow since I like playing in it during the winter. A good set of ATs like the Nittos will get you through a lot of lighter/stickier snow conditions, but the MTs seemed to have more bite when it came to the fluffier stuff and they got loaded up some.

 

[Jeremy556]

305/70/17 MTRs at about 5 psi are outstanding in deep powder, which is basically all I have been doing for the last month. On the flip side, they are useless/dangerous on packed snow/icy roads

 

[BlackWorksInc]

305/70/17 MTRs at about 5 psi are outstanding in deep powder, which is basically all I have been doing for the last month. On the flip side, they are useless/dangerous on packed snow/icy roads

Which is funny because the Nitto's did well in that respect and even in light fluff. Anyone have any experience with the Toyo MTs or new RTs in deep snow?

 

[trex9K]

Tires are not the problem in 18" of snow. High centering is the problem.

Can a dedicated snow like an Xice or Blizzak do this?