Destroyed Engine

[spartacus]

You don't have to have liability insurance to have a business license, for years many Sole Prop business types work with a business license and sellers permit with no insurance whatsoever.

Typically what will force a shady operation into gaining some form of liability coverage would be renting a place as for the most part building owners and landlords will require at lease some form of insurance for you to rent a building or shop space.[/QUOTE

I truly doubt that. Some sole prop business eg financial, book keeping, home cleaner and such
An auto shop cannot be a sole prop business. even if it's owned by the owner out right because of the requirement of licensed mechanics and customer machinery in this case automobiles which requires a job done right for the customers safety.
Current requirements for businesses .Any business that handles customers' vehicles needs garage liability insurance in addition to its commercial general liability coverage. This includes businesses such as repair shops, car dealerships, tow truck drivers and service stations.
To get a barber's license and operate a business you need to have general liability insurance just in case you clip someone's ear. So when it comes to heavy vehicles, speed, and human beings i would be surprised if the state let someone fix cars without insurance but then again i am a reasonable person.

 

[GSTMike]

You don't have to have liability insurance to have a business license, for years many Sole Prop business types work with a business license and sellers permit with no insurance whatsoever.

Typically what will force a shady operation into gaining some form of liability coverage would be renting a place as for the most part building owners and landlords will require at lease some form of insurance for you to rent a building or shop space.[/QUOTE

I truly doubt that. Some sole prop business eg financial, book keeping, home cleaner and such
An auto shop cannot be a sole prop business. even if it's owned by the owner out right because of the requirement of licensed mechanics and customer machinery in this case automobiles which requires a job done right for the customers safety.
Current requirements for businesses .Any business that handles customers' vehicles needs garage liability insurance in addition to its commercial general liability coverage. This includes businesses such as repair shops, car dealerships, tow truck drivers and service stations.
To get a barber's license and operate a business you need to have general liability insurance just in case you clip someone's ear. So when it comes to heavy vehicles, speed, and human beings i would be surprised if the state let someone fix cars without insurance but then again i am a reasonable person.

I know of 3 shops local to me (Nor Cal) that operate under Sole Prop and carry no business liability coverage, gaining a business license regardless of business type is attainable without any insurance whatsoever. Operating a business however such as general repair or automotive with out certain coverage and licenses is illegal but it has no bearing on someone's ability to obtain a business license.

I know this as 100% fact as I own and operate a performance and dyno tuning shop in Nor Cal and literally just went to the city office last week to pick up a new business license for another business I am opening which is also related to Automotive and as I have outside of formed a LLC and opened a bank account for it done nothing at all as it's not currently operating but I collected my business license all the same!

 

[GSTMike]

OP I'm not familiar with what licenses are required in Kansas for general repair and such but out here in Cali they would have to be BAR licensed which in turn would enable you to go through the BAR who in a lot of cases can assist end users with disputes with businesses and owners, might be an option for you if you think there's foul play (it strikes me as very odd reasoning for a hole in a block regardless of what's being tested outside of abuse)

 

[eleven14]

Normally I take my vehicle to be serviced at a Toyota dealership, but I recently took it to a local mechanic to have the MAF sensor and left cv boot replaced due to the mechanic offering to do the work at a lower cost.

What mechanic was it if you don't mind me asking? Sounds super shady

 

[spartacus]

I know of 3 shops local to me (Nor Cal) that operate under Sole Prop and carry no business liability coverage, gaining a business license regardless of business type is attainable without any insurance whatsoever. Operating a business however such as general repair or automotive with out certain coverage and licenses is illegal but it has no bearing on someone's ability to obtain a business license.

I know this as 100% fact as I own and operate a performance and dyno tuning shop in Nor Cal and literally just went to the city office last week to pick up a new business license for another business I am opening which is also related to Automotive and as I have outside of formed a LLC and opened a bank account for it done nothing at all as it's not currently operating but I collected my business license all the same!

you are referring to general business license which is creating a LLC and obtaining a name and tax id. but to operate a business you need insurance, then would it be correct to assume that the garage that the OP took his truck to will have to have insurance in order to operate an automotive shop and hence if they indeed have insurance and a claim against that business will have to be processed by the autos shops insurance. My point being you can get a business licence called boobs r us but can you do implants without having the relevant insurance to do implants. my initial post was to explain to the OP that business has to have insurance in order to cover their liabilities.

 

[GSTMike]

you are referring to general business license which is creating a LLC and obtaining a name and tax id. but to operate a business you need insurance, then would it be correct to assume that the garage that the OP took his truck to will have to have insurance in order to operate an automotive shop and hence if they indeed have insurance and a claim against that business will have to be processed by the autos shops insurance. My point being you can get a business licence called boobs r us but can you do implants without having the relevant insurance to do implants. my initial post was to explain to the OP that business has to have insurance in order to cover their liabilities.

Understood and I totally get where you're coming from however my point was that to obtain an business license as per your first comment you do not need to have any form of business insurance regardless of what you intend to do with said business license and also you do not have to have any insurance to operate as a business. It's illegal to do so however it's done all the time unfortunately and as I stated I'm aware of 3 general repair shops operating within 30 miles of me with no BAR license or liability insurance.

FWIW forming a LLC or C/S Corp and getting a tax ID then obtaining a license from you local city office is obtaining a business license, it's done prior to setting up operations and paying for insurance all the time, case in point I'm not ready to go live with my other venture yet so don't want to piss away the $8k+ the liability coverage will cost or the $1k bond fee until I'm actually ready to operate but without the license and tax ID I can't get the other things in place I need.

 

[mindavion]

What mechanic was it if you don't mind me asking? Sounds super shady

Eillenbergers Automotive which makes it super strange because they have really good reviews on Google.

 

[mindavion]

this is a perfect scenario for you to get in touch with a lawyer. they dont have to do anything wrong. the fact that this damage was done at the garage and like everyone else said testing the maf shouldn't be the cause. the garage is responsible for work they perform. in the event that they break something or blow a hole through the motor while testing is their fault and only an attorney can dig down to the facts. If they are professionals they should know what to do. I think their insurance should cover your loss. all garages have to have insurance for their business license.

I’m considering looking into legal action, but I’m afraid this might cost more time and money than I can afford. I’m in a bad situation where I’m out of town for the next two months for a job, and the earliest I’d be able to talk to a lawyer is July. It’s just a frustrating situation all around.

 

[Lindenwood]

I am thinking they screwed up with seafoam, probably dumping too much in. Then they sat there with it WOT trying to clear the engine and cover their tracks, blowing the engine in the process.

I definitely agree with having the oil checked. If you can identify the presence of such an additive, you might have a case for compensation.

Otherwise, I say break out the molotovs ..

 

[spartacus]

I’m considering looking into legal action, but I’m afraid this might cost more time and money than I can afford. I’m in a bad situation where I’m out of town for the next two months for a job, and the earliest I’d be able to talk to a lawyer is July. It’s just a frustrating situation all around.

I bet it is frustrating. it will probably cost a little bit upfront but a good lawyer can help recuperate costs. good luck.

 

[mtbtim]

You know, one definition for "Integrity" is "Doing the right thing when nobody is looking". This shop knows they F'd up but they are deciding to do the dishonest thing and act like it's a pure coincidence your engine decided to blow up while at their shop. It's entirely possible but most of commenting here know better.

When you F'up, you man up, admit your mistake and take responsibility. So, it's either just the mechanic being dishonest or it's a combination of the mechanic and shop being dishonest. Either way, it's shops like this that encourage people to handle their own automotive work because scenarios like this are way too common in the automotive industry.

Sorry this happened to you.

 

[4Reak Show]

One way to test MAF sensors is a wide open throttle test on the road and you can plug the numbers into a special calculator based on RPM, engine size and grams per second intake air. I've done it a hundred times on various makes and models to diagnose a poorly operating MAF (normally for under reporting and causing a false "lean" reading in the exhaust). The idea is to get the RPMs high but not to redline and do a couple pulls of about 80-90% max airflow.

The point of my ramblings is that they could have likely just discovered this type of test and went out and floored your truck to redline a bunch of times until it shot a rod. The only way a rod is grenading (ESPECIALLY on a 5VZ) is continual over revving and lack of oil. They totally f*cked up. I'd get at least the cost of a new engine out of them. That's total horsesh!t.


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[AntleredRuin]

I understand the time aspect of it, but at least try calling around and have a 'phone interview' if you can. Better sooner than later.
As for the cost, sure it will be some up front, but it will be vastly cheaper than the near $6k you were quoted (which is well overpriced however you look at it). You may be able to recuperate the lawyer fees by having the shop pay for 'damages'.
Be straightforward with the lawyer as to what you want/need. They're fighting for you, and their continued success is directly dependant on your (and other client's) satisfaction.
Lawyers can usually give you an idea as to price, potential of success, etc, up front.

I’m considering looking into legal action, but I’m afraid this might cost more time and money than I can afford. I’m in a bad situation where I’m out of town for the next two months for a job, and the earliest I’d be able to talk to a lawyer is July. It’s just a frustrating situation all around.

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[Tyler James Inc]

Please send your oil to Blackstone ASAP.
They ARE 100% absolutely lying to you. There has NEVER been a case where the 5VZ-FE engine blew a rod from resting the MAF. It's not "very rare", it's impossible.
Get the lab results of the oil. If there is additives- like Seafoam- take them the results, tell them you're giving them a chance to make it right, and all you're asking for- at this time- is your engine replaced.
With their reputation, they may do the right thing. How you handle the situation when you go in also has a bearing on the outcome, obviously.
Now, if there are not any suspicious findings in the oil, I would find it hard to believe they did anything wrong. I know it's happened plenty of times, but I still shy away from thinking a reputable shop intentionally threw a rod just to try to get a $5,500 job.
Get your oil checked, give them a chance to make it right. If they decline, give em hell with a lawyer.

 

[AntleredRuin]

One way to test MAF sensors is a wide open throttle test on the road and you can plug the numbers into a special calculator based on RPM, engine size and grams per second intake air. I've done it a hundred times on various makes and models to diagnose a poorly operating MAF (normally for under reporting and causing a false "lean" reading in the exhaust). The idea is to get the RPMs high but not to redline and do a couple pulls of about 80-90% max airflow.

The point of my ramblings is that they could have likely just discovered this type of test and went out and floored your truck to redline a bunch of times until it shot a rod. The only way a rod is grenading (ESPECIALLY on a 5VZ) is continual over revving and lack of oil. They totally f*cked up. I'd get at least the cost of a new engine out of them. That's total horsesh!t.


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Its also EXTREMELY HARD to get these engines to rev above 3k in any gear but straight D. (believe me, I've tried).
As I doubt they were continuously drag racing down the street in a customer's car, that leaves only a few options: anchor the 4Runner to a dynometer (which most standard shops don't have), redline it while it's on a lift (which is stupid dangerous), or redline it while it's just sitting there (which it REALLY doesn't like doing).

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[eleven14]

Eillenbergers Automotive which makes it super strange because they have really good reviews on Google.

Weird, I'll be avoiding them - thanks for the info.

And sorry this happened to you. If it we me, I'd at least consult a lawyer (even if it's a phone interview). The Blackstone test is a good option as well for not a lot of money.

Good luck, hopefully it works out

 

[Scramble]

Its also EXTREMELY HARD to get these engines to rev above 3k in any gear but straight D. (believe me, I've tried).

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I'll have to disagree, flooring it up the mountain to my house...I can hit 5000 rpms pretty easily. Thats with my Limited, not 3RZ.

 

[Jszeszko]

When I worked for Toyota, we had a tech doing an induction service on a 3.4l Tacoma, basically it was a chlorinated solvent connected to a vacuum line on the intake. You're just supposed to idle the vehicle and let it drip in with the vacuum pressure, but the tech revved up the motor and it pulled a large amount of the solvent all at once and hydrolocked the motor, sent a rod through the block and everything. If they were using any maf cleaner or solvent to clean the intake and got too much in there, it's very possible the same thing happened.

It's totally possible it was a freak accident and the motor let go randomly, but chances are there's something they're not telling you.

 

[AntleredRuin]

I'll have to disagree, flooring it up the mountain to my house...I can hit 5000 rpms pretty easily. Thats with my Limited, not 3RZ.

Correction to what I wrote then- when sitting still, with an automatic. Driving around, yeah it revs easier.

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[pluton]

It's possible that your local small claims court allows dispute values in this price range. Get statements from expert witnesses(the tech(s) from the dealer that recently dealt with the car) to state that the engine wasn't showing signs of rod knock, etc. and explain that the engine could only have been destroyed by malfeasance on the part of the offending shop.
Or, if a regular court suit is indicated, your lawyer could possibly communicate to the shop that it'll be way cheaper for them to finance an engine replacement(at another shop, natch...the dealer, maybe?), than to finance the engine replacement plus their lawyers fees plus your lawyers fees.
A note for the future: Don't base your service requests to a repair shop based on shaky info from a previous shop. You said that the dealer said that if the MAF threw another code, that the next step would be to replace the MAF. The dealer could have been wrong about that from the beginning, either because they're human and make mistakes or because they're incompetent or crooks. A dealer service department that's incompetent or crooked, or both? Shocking, I know...but very possible.