Did dealer really replace water pump, etc? (w/ pics)

[smallcandle]

My wife took our 03 4Runner to the dealer early last week for it's 100,000 mile service. Work to be performed included oil and filter change, transmission flush and refill, drain and refill both differentials, replace water pump and timing belt plus the serpentine belt. There were a few other jobs to be done and the total cost of this service was around $1,300. Now, we've had this 4Runner since new and fully intend to keep it since its been paid for for a few years now.

Today, however, I was replacing the license plate lights (somehow that escaped the dealer during the 10 hours it was in their service bay) and decided to peek under the hood and take a look at the "new" water pump and belt. To my untrained eye, though, it doesn't look like a new water pump at all. It is very dirty for less than two weeks old and just doesn't look freshly replaced. By comparison, I just had the water pump on my 2000 Ford Excursion diesel replaced recently and it looks brand new in every way.

Also, I'm 99% sure the dealer didn't replace the oil filter and I can't even be sure that they drained and refilled the diffs or transmission. And oh yeah, take special notice of the two nuts on the pulley just down and to the right of the water pump. Notice how they are almost ready to FALL OFF? WTF is that all about? In the end we're left with a fairly suspicious feeling that some of the work that we paid for was not completed.

I've attached some pics of the water pump and pulley nuts just as I found them this morning. Any input as to whether or not all seems well is appreciated. Either way, I'm going back next week and discussing all issues with the service manager. We bought this 4Runner from this dealer and have been loyal when service has been needed but now we feel like we're being taken advantage of.

Thanks for looking guys.

 

[ToyTech99]

Well, I think you are right to be suspicious. It's hard to tell from your pictures, but it sure seems like that serpentine belt isn't new (or two weeks old) judging by the pic. Then again, why would they have even loosened/removed the fan bolts if they didn't actually do the work? Most of the dirt I see in your pics is the water pump pulley, which would have been removed and put back on after the job was complete.

BTW, $1300 for all the things you mentioned, plus whatever the other works was that you also mentioned, certainly seems like a killer bargain for a dealership.

 

[dreadog]

I dont know if it`s a new water pump, but that looks like fresh black sealant around where the pump meets the block! I guess next time you have parts replaced no matter who does it tell them you want the old parts!

 

[crawlerjunkie]

It looks like maybe a surplus belt. And there are fresh tool marks on the thermostat housing, but the water pump just looks like they resealed it. Notice the color similarity between it and the outlet pipe.:AK47:

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I have V6 so forgive my ignorance...

Many t-belt engines I have worked on have the water driven by the t-belt and you can't see it. What your pics show me is a fan support/water manifold mechanism. Maybe on the V8 Runner it is the water pump but I don't think so...

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I think it is a new water pump. In the second picture where you can see the silicone sealer you can see the difference in color on each side off the sealer. The clean part is the new water pump. I just changed mine last week so I am very familia with it. The bolt that holds the fan on had to come off to get to the water pump, it looks like they did not tighten all the bolts. Not good. That is the reason I did my timing belt myself. I know it was done right and not rushed.

 

[ToyTech99]

I have V6 so forgive my ignorance...

Many t-belt engines I have worked on have the water driven by the t-belt and you can't see it. What your pics show me is a fan support/water manifold mechanism. Maybe on the V8 Runner it is the water pump but I don't think so...

Driven by the timing belt? You probably meant to say that the water pump is driven by the serpentine belt, right? You can't see the timing belt at all from the outside and it does not drive accessories in any engine as far as I know.

 

[riverider]

You should have been given the chance to see all the old parts, even then you can't be 100% sure they were from your 4Runner.

This is another case where dealing with a dealer just might get someone the shaft. Sadly there is little you can do, proving things were not done would be pretty tough.

I can't really tell a lot from your pictures,but if it looks dirty and you feel it's still the old pump, I bet it's the old pump. As for the belts you can see, they I am betting got changed. Anything you can't see chances are they were never touched.

Find a nice local shop you can watch what is going on with your 4Runner, mine won't allow you near the inside of their shop, they claim their Insurance company's policy. So I don't deal with them,plain and simple I don't trust them.

 

[DaBoostCreep]

Driven by the timing belt? You probably meant to say that the water pump is driven by the serpentine belt, right? You can't see the timing belt at all from the outside and it does not drive accessories in any engine as far as I know.

Well you're dead wrong on this one. Many water pumps are driven by timing belts. For instance, all Subarus. This is why its recommended to replace the water pump when the timing belt is done. If you were to inspect the water pump and not replace it, then 2k miles later have it fail, you're going to pay for another entire timing belt job along with the pump.

Also, in most cases where the water pump is driven by the timing belt, there is a coolant neck, and thermostat housing that protrudes from the motor which the hose attaches to. You can't see the pump at all, and that housing I'm talking about doesnt get replaced.

I will say however that the dealer needs to get on that tech's ass about not tightening the fan bolts. I would also ask for a partial refund for the inconvenience.

 

[manhunter]

I think everything on there was probably replaced, but I would agree that you should complain about the loose bolt on the pulley. Not sure if they do this with water pumps but some parts are replaced by "refurbished" parts that are supposed to be good as new, and that may account for the dull used look. Even some new parts, especially those with the galvanized finish, come out of the box with that look. Did you replace the water pump and t-belt based on it being 100k miles, was it leaking, or did the dealer convince you to do it while he had the t-belt off? Just curious. I have heard of some runners and tacos going up to 200k miles or more with the original water pump, but I guess that issue is subject of another thread and need not get into that.

 

[ToyTech99]

Well you're dead wrong on this one. Many water pumps are driven by timing belts. For instance, all Subarus. This is why its recommended to replace the water pump when the timing belt is done.

Dead wrong? I was talking about all Toyota engines. But either way, if you want to bring up other vehicles, notice I said "as far as I know". I don't work on Subarus, but if the water pump is driven by the timing belt on their engines, it sure seems like a stupid design. Timing belts should be used for timing, not to drive accessories. That's why we have serpentine belts--to drive the various engine accessories.

So lets not waste time talking about POS Subarus and instead focus on 4Runners. The water pump on the 4Runner engine is NOT driven by the timing belt, it's driven by the serpentine belt.

 

[ToyTech99]

...This is why its recommended to replace the water pump when the timing belt is done. .. .

Forgot to say----

The reason why it is recommended to replace the water pump when doing a timing belt job is because the water pump must be removed to replace the timing belt. Since a water pump is a relatively cheap part to replace and they are known to fail, it is usually considered cost effective to replace it during a timing belt replacement because there's no added cost of labor since it is already removed. That's the reason, not what you stated.

 

[riverider]

I think everything on there was probably replaced, but I would agree that you should complain about the loose bolt on the pulley. Not sure if they do this with water pumps but some parts are replaced by "refurbished" parts that are supposed to be good as new, and that may account for the dull used look. Even some new parts, especially those with the galvanized finish, come out of the box with that look. Did you replace the water pump and t-belt based on it being 100k miles, was it leaking, or did the dealer convince you to do it while he had the t-belt off? Just curious. I have heard of some runners and tacos going up to 200k miles or more with the original water pump, but I guess that issue is subject of another thread and need not get into that.

Now myself I have never had a Dealer give a choice in using Quote:"replaced by "refurbished" parts: It's always a new OEM parts only deal they offer.

 

[riverider]

Forgot to say----

The reason why it is recommended to replace the water pump when doing a timing belt job is because the water pump must be removed to replace the timing belt. Since a water pump is a relatively cheap part to replace and they are known to fail, it is usually considered cost effective to replace it during a timing belt replacement because there's no added cost of labor since it is already removed. That's the reason, not what you stated.

I agree since it's the labor that is really a high cost factor,it's a good idea to replace the water pump and other pump related items at this time.

 

[XJeepguy]

I will add my comment , I would not have had a 100,000 mile tranny flushed either. Unless there is some kind of contamination ,those trans flush jobs are a rip off . IMO

I would be hauling the service manager out by the scruff of his neck and show him those lose bolts. That could be very dangerous man .

 

[ToyTech99]

...I have heard of some runners and tacos going up to 200k miles or more with the original water pump...

Starting in the 2004 model year (for 4Runners), Toyota began using long-life coolant that does not contain silicates. The reason this is important is because this new coolant is not at all abrasive to water pump seals, which is by far the main cause for water pump failures. So it should not be unusual to see the water pumps in '04 and newer 4Runners last more than 200,000 miles, as long as the owners make sure they continue to use the correct (non-silicate) coolant when servicing the cooling system.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

As I stated I just replaced my timing belt and water pump on my 4.7. The timing belt does drive the water pump and the water pump is behind the timing belt. The water pump does not have to be removed to replace just the timing belt. The pulley that holds on the fan is not on the water pump it is just a idler pulley. In his second picture behind the silicone sealer you cas see the metal looks new there. That is the water pump right next to the cast iron block.

 

[manhunter]

Forgot to say----

The reason why it is recommended to replace the water pump when doing a timing belt job is because the water pump must be removed to replace the timing belt. Since a water pump is a relatively cheap part to replace and they are known to fail, it is usually considered cost effective to replace it during a timing belt replacement because there's no added cost of labor since it is already removed. That's the reason, not what you stated.

I had my timing belt replaced at 120K, and of course they recommended to replace the water pump and thermostat at the same time, for an additional $300. So not sure if that is considered relatively cheap, or if they were charging double labor. Regarding "refurbished" parts I elluded to, I agree that MOST dealers do not offer that, it is usually some shop chain, ...., so most likely that was not the case.

 

[GMZ]

As I stated I just replaced my timing belt and water pump on my 4.7. The timing belt does drive the water pump and the water pump is behind the timing belt. The water pump does not have to be removed to replace just the timing belt. The pulley that holds on the fan is not on the water pump it is just a idler pulley. In his second picture behind the silicone sealer you cas see the metal looks new there. That is the water pump right next to the cast iron block.

Did you happen to take any pics? Im looking to do it myself when he time comes.

Im always in the habit of asking for the old parts and/or bringing my own new parts in.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Did you happen to take any pics? Im looking to do it myself when he time comes.

Im always in the habit of asking for the old parts and/or bringing my own new parts in.

I did not take pictures but followed this somewhat. http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/144996-gonna-change-the-t-belt-today/ I followed the factory shop manual and it walks you through step by step.
I also replaced all the little oil cooler hoses etc and the thermostat.