Did I expect too much when negotiating with dealer?

[Cobra Kai]

Try as I might, I haven't been able to join the group of happy T4R owners. I spent most of the day negotiating on and off with a Toyota dealer for a 2006 Sport. Anyway, the MSRP is $35,146 and Invoice $31, 067, and I had a trade-in NADA valued at $8,500. Obviously my hope was to negotiate the price as close to ~$22,500 as possible. The dealer, however, would not budge under $25,200. From some of the reading I've been doing here, it seems like I should be able to do better than that. Or am I expecting too much?

I know the current 2.9% APR/$1500 cash back offer ends tomorrow. Any idea how often Toyota offers this type of financing/cash back? I have a feeling it may be fairly uncommon, but I hope that's not the case.

And last, but not least, this is a great forum! Lots of great info and dedicated, enthusiastic owners!

 

[snap315]

Okay...

First, ALWAYS negoitate your trade-in value seperate from the cost of your new vehicle. Don't let the saleperson confuse the issue or the numbers.

Go to Kelly Blue Book to see what you trade-in is worth. But don't expect the full value even if your vehicle is in great shape unless it's also a Toyota.

You should be able to get a good deal at around $500 over invoice for the T4R. This is because of the time of year (getting close to the new 2007 models coming out in a few months), and the current high cost of gas and it's affects on SUV sales.

If the salesperson won't deal then go to the Internet of Fleet sales person. If he or she won't deal then go to another dealer.

 

[toy94x4]

Check out Edmunds.com, they've got some really good info on that site. You should be able to get lower though. Do what Cobra mentioned for sure. Good Luck!

 

[toto]

$500 over your invoice number is very reasonable. Unless you'd rather have the financing, don't forget to subtract another $1500 (for a net of $1000 under invoice).

Evaluate your trade-in using both KBB and Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com). KBB is usually low and Edmunds is usually high. The average of the two is VERY close to what the dealer will really give you. (I've found that to be true for the last 3 cars I've traded in.) Be honest about choosing "good" instead of the top-rated "excellent" condition - dealers will only get near the "excellent" price on a pristine cream puff with low mileage.

Toyota has been running a monthly promotion since March that I know of. Odds are there will still be a deal in June.

 

[Cobra Kai]

Thanks for the quick replies. While I think I can do better than the final negotiated price, I'm sure I'm putting too much value on my trade-in. NADA is at least $1k more than KBB & Edmunds, which average somewhere closer to $7k. So with everyone's advice, I guess a more realistic target should be more like $24,600-ish. And in that case, I think the APR makes sense, as the break-even for APR vs. $1500 cash back is ~$21k.

Thanks again everyone. Hopefully in the not so distant future I'll have pics of my own to post.

 

[junk yard dog]

Purchase Price

I have been quoted $990 below invoice WITHOUT the REBATE. Rebates range from $1000 (chicago region)-$2500 (southeast region for a 4x4).

At a minimum, you should be able to get $400 UNDER invoice. :bigok:

 

[mtnracer]

Trade In

NEVER trade in your car at the dealer - they will always screw you. If you want the best deal, take the time and sell your car privately using autotrader. I have sold 3 cars this way in the past 6 years and have made $2-3K more than the dealer offered every time.

I do have to admit that I try with the dealer every time but I get so frustrated by their tactics that I always sell on Autotrader.

Once you have the cash, go to the dealer and start negotiating on final price for the new ride. It makes it much easier to compare multiple dealer offers as well.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[toto]

Re: Trade In

NEVER trade in your car at the dealer - they will always screw you.

True, but in some states you need to consider the sales tax implications of a trade. Some states only tax the difference between the trade and the new car. When you're up around $25000 for the trade-in value, you're looking at $1600-$1700 of tax savings. That cuts into the "profit margin" of selling it outright. If you sold it yourself for $28000, you only "made" $1300 or so.

If you're willing to go through the process of selling it yourself, you will get more than trading it in. But you have to decide if that's worth the hassle of dealing with strangers, providing test drives, and wondering if the check will clear. (Even a Cashier's Check can bounce these days for stopped payment!)

 

[Sac State]

Okay...

First, ALWAYS negoitate your trade-in value seperate from the cost of your new vehicle. Don't let the saleperson confuse the issue or the numbers.

I agree, keep the deals separate or you will always be turning in a circle during negotiations. Agree on what you will buy the new truck for and then discuss how much the dealer will give you on a trade. Trying to morph the two transactions into one will be a lesson in frustration as you described. What they give you in a trade has absolutely no bearing on what you will pay for the new truck.

Save the rebate amount and deduct it from the final agreed upon price.

 

[jacal]

If you are not under pressure to own a 4R right away, I think you played an excellent first round of negotiation. Assuming the dealer has all your information, I would wait a week or two. They will probably phone with "great news". If not, go back in and chances are your suv will still be sitting there. Then you are in an even better position.

I assume win/lose barganing with a dealer. When done, I don't expect any long term relation. If you need this relationship, then a couple bucks (relative term) may not be worth increasing your BP or be worried about bad service each time you return.

Think about any possible accessories you would buy anyways, and use them as tools as well. I would expect most accessories are only worth about half what the dealer sells them at.

My 2c.

J

 

[mtnracer]

Re: Re: Trade In

True, but in some states you need to consider the sales tax implications of a trade. Some states only tax the difference between the trade and the new car. When you're up around $25000 for the trade-in value, you're looking at $1600-$1700 of tax savings. That cuts into the "profit margin" of selling it outright. If you sold it yourself for $28000, you only "made" $1300 or so.

If you're willing to go through the process of selling it yourself, you will get more than trading it in. But you have to decide if that's worth the hassle of dealing with strangers, providing test drives, and wondering if the check will clear. (Even a Cashier's Check can bounce these days for stopped payment!)

Good points. Anybody have a list of states where only the difference between the trade and the new car is taxed?

Also, if you do sell your car privately, have the sale notarized at the buyer's bank. That way you can cash their check right away.
If the bank does not have a branch, don't be embarassed to call the bank that issued the check to verify validity while signing the paperwork with the buyer.

 

[Cobra Kai]

Dealers can be such scumbags sometimes. I did get a call back today saying that their very last and lowest offer they could make was $24,500. It worked out to $500 over invoice and $7000 for my trade, so I was interested. I mentioned that a total of $23,000 after the rebate was closer to what it would take for me to drive in today and sign the papers, but it took some prodding before he told me that the $24,500 included the dealership holding the rebate. So what initially appeared to be them budging by $700 was an $800 swing in the other direction. I called him on it, told him we were done talking, and hung up. Lotta other T4R's out there...

Thanks again for the advice and input. Hopefully the next negotiation will go smoother.

 

[Baba Booey]

You may want to try going onto Toyota's website or another site such as Edmunds.com or Autotrader.com and using their "request a price quote" services.

I have read that using a dealership's "Internet" sales department is one of the surest ways of obtaining what is closer to a rock-bottom price from the start than the traditional method of walking into a showroom and dealing with the first sales rep who comes up to you.

If you request the price through the Internet sales department, the dealership likely knows that you have done your homework online and have the ability to quickly get quotes from other competing dealers in the area.

Over the last few years, I have come to believe that there really is some truth in that you get a better deal more quickly by using the Internet as a starting point. In fact, a few years ago, I saw a used Honda Pilot advertised by a Honda dealer on Autotrader.com for several hundred dollars less than the "sale price" tag posted on the vehicle at the lot. I brought this up to the salesman, and he admitted that they often price their vehicles "more aggressively" on the Internet sites.

 

[sketch1]

Re: Trade In

It makes it much easier to compare multiple dealer offers as well.

Just my 2 cents.

That is what I did, I started talking to two dealerships, each one in a different town and got a bidding war going between the two... I first wrote down everything I wanted, and told them to make me an offer, but I did it by fax so that way I didn't have to deal with games over the phone, once I got a price from each I called the one with the higher price and told them I had another offer for "x" and so on and so forth. Also during the process I learned that one dealer was quite the liar about pretty much everything..but thats another post.. so it also told me where I wanted to finally end up buying the car from and I knew which dealer to talk down the most. I ended up with an offer for 250 over invoice plus the 1,500 rebate. However, the car I wanted was at another dealer so they had to trade one of their 07 camry's and wouldn't go below 500 over invoice. So I ended up paying 500 over invoice, plus the rebate. From what I have heard that is pretty good.

 

[Uneek]

Where are you located Cobra? If you're in the Bay Area, CA, I could refer you to my rep who I got my truck from.

 

[Cobra Kai]

I'm in Kansas City, so CA is a bit of a drive, unfortunately. I very much appreciate the offer, though!

 

[Uneek]

I'm in Kansas City, so CA is a bit of a drive, unfortunately. I very much appreciate the offer, though!

No problem... you'll get the truck real soon. I had mine on order (waited about three months) and I was pest, bugging the heck out of my rep and when actually arrived, we (my rep and I) both were in Las Vegas. He called me and asked when I wanted to pick it up.

Don't forget to post pics when you bring it home.