Disadvantages of locker front end?

[DeclansDaddy]

Well I ordered the Spartan t8-30 for the rear end of my 86 4Runner. So with that taking care of the rear I almost ordered the same setup for the front but wanted to get opinions. What disadvantages are there to having this style locker in the front end. My truck is mostly a cruise around town, hunting, and hopefully in the future I'll get it out on some trails. I'm thinking Uwharrie, Shoe Creek, Flagpole and maybe a few other Va/NC trails. That being said with a locker in the front will I have steering problems driving my truck say in the snow on the streets? I imagine that when your crawling having a selectable locker is ideal just in case for whatever situation you don't want both tires turning (I'm guessing to keep from sliding sideways?) like I said I'm a newb at the crawling game. I'd love to just put an air locker in the front but can't justify spending that kind of money when a SAS is in my future plans and then the locker wouldn't be compatible. So what would you guys do? Put a spartan locker in it or just spend the money for a selectable? Keep in mind the more money I spend on this locker the less I have to spend elsewhere.

 

[flagbasher]

I read that a locker in the front is awful in the snow.

Locker front or rear - YotaTech Forums

 

[Hyde802]

Alrighty then :typing:

Do you have manual hubs? In "unlock" on the street, youll never even know its there. However, when locked in the wheels will "push" instead follow the curve of the turn. If your turning left, the drivers rear tire and the passenger front are fighting each other (they are all fighting each other, but those two the most) because they are traveling at very different speeds. Its the differentials job to make power to all 4 wheels equal. Even in 4wd on pavement with open diffs, you can feel the front and rear fighting each other, thats why AWD and newer 4x4 vehicles have a center diff too.

This makes snowy or muddy road at speed driving a little sketchy, and the wheels will turn, but will break traction and slide forward in 4wd. Plus puts a ton of extra stress on the already fragile cvs.

It was mentioned in another thread about "unlocking one hub" to help on the street. Does not really work. Will make turning the wheel easier, but 3 of the wheels are still fighting.

So, do people do it? yes. can you do it? sure why not, just remember its there and learn how to drive with it.

A limited slip will still push a little in the snow, but not as much.

 

[KidVermicious]

All of what Hyde said. I can tell you from experience that a limited slip in front will push on slippery surfaces like snow or sand when you have the hubs locked, and won't help much when you're wheeling.

Lots of guys run an automatic locker in front. I don't know anybody who has one and uses 4WD on snowy pavement, ever. I know two guys who HAD an automatic locker in the front of their trail trucks and went to a selectable because they got tired of not being able to turn in 4WD.

If you never use 4WD on snow/ice, then maybe an automatic locker in front will work for you. But a selectable would be better.

 

[Scalded_Dawg]

SUb'd for more comments... I was about to do the same thing.

 

[DeclansDaddy]

I know the auto locker would be a pain in the ass I just was worried about wasting money on a selectable if I was to do the axle swap in the near future. I guess my best bet is to go selectable and hope when the time comes I could recoup some money and sell it or just wait it out with just the rear locked. My plan was when the axle swap is done to go selectable no doubt.

 

[KidVermicious]

You said you hadn't had it out crawling yet, so you've got a ways to go before you'll be pushing that truck hard enough to need a locker. And as you note, if you're swapping in a solid axle soon then it doesn't make sense to buy a locker you can't use. I'd just hold off on locking the front.

This is only tangentially related, but it is possible for a new wheeler to build a truck too fast, you know.

 

[Hyde802]

My plan was when the axle swap is done to go selectable no doubt.

Take the $ you would be spending on a front selectable, and put it towards the solid axle swap. iicr, an ARB is in the 8 hundy range (plus set up), which is a good chunk of solid axle parts.

There are two sides to this too, but wheeling with an open front will help keep your cvs alive for the most part. One thing to think about with a locker front is, can you change a CV on the trail efficiently?

 

[DeclansDaddy]

This is only tangentially related, but it is possible for a new wheeler to build a truck too fast, you know.

Yea I know. I just need to go out there and get my feet wet a little but I'd just hate to go out there and look like an ass. I don't want to be the subject of someone's youtube video titled "Look at the dumbass newb".

Take the $ you would be spending on a front selectable, and put it towards the solid axle swap. iicr, an ARB is in the 8 hundy range (plus set up), which is a good chunk of solid axle parts.

This is what I'm thinking now. I actually just found a complete '83 front axle with 5.29's (open diff) for $300 if I remove it from the truck myself which I'd rather do anyways. The rear was spoken for so I'd just have to get a gear for my rear. Sound like a good deal to you guys? And what should I look for? I'll of course drain the fluid and see how that looks but is there any way easily to check for straightness?

 

[Hyde802]

I don't want to be the subject of someone's youtube video titled "Look at the dumbass newb".

Having a fully built rig and doing something stupid because you dont kow how your rig handle could easily end up with the same you tube title. (tons of videos already out there like this, people with more money than skill) The best way to get experience is to GO WHEEL! We all started some where. Go wheel the dam truck. Youll learn how it reacts when its small, and that will help you see where to spend money and how it need to be upgraded to fit your wheeling style. Noobishness is not judged by your rig, but how you drive and act on the trail, and no amount of web wheeling can prepare you for it.

Thats a good deal for a complete axle, especially if it already has 5.29s. Look at it from the front, they like to bend around the knuckle balls and just inside of the spring perch on the pass side.

 

[DeclansDaddy]

Going to check out the axle this evening. But this in no way means my SAS is happening soon. But at least I'll have it on hand and ready to go. Also should I find a rear to match the width or just run spacers, I've never run spacers on anything I've ever had but they just seem like a weak link to me.

 

[KidVermicious]

That's a good deal for an axle with a 5.29 third. That's a good deal for just the third, the housing and shafts are a bonus.

You can run spacers, or do the IFS hub conversion.

 

[fourwd1]

Going to check out the axle this evening. But this in no way means my SAS is happening soon. But at least I'll have it on hand and ready to go. Also should I find a rear to match the width or just run spacers, I've never run spacers on anything I've ever had but they just seem like a weak link to me.

You don't want to go to a narrower axle in the rear, run spacers. I've been running 1.5 in spacers up front for over 10 yrs with no problems.

 

[KidVermicious]

I'm running spacers to match my IFS rear too. I compare them to body lifts - maybe not ideal, but sometimes you do what you gotta do.

 

[CAN-03runner]

Yea I know. I just need to go out there and get my feet wet a little but I'd just hate to go out there and look like an ass. I don't want to be the subject of someone's youtube video titled "Look at the dumbass newb".



This is what I'm thinking now. I actually just found a complete '83 front axle with 5.29's (open diff) for $300 if I remove it from the truck myself which I'd rather do anyways. The rear was spoken for so I'd just have to get a gear for my rear. Sound like a good deal to you guys? And what should I look for? I'll of course drain the fluid and see how that looks but is there any way easily to check for straightness?

You only look like an ass if you do asinine things. Getting stuck is not asinine. Stuck happens. Usually the asinine youtube guys are the ones spinning like fools, bouncing around and crashing on rocks until something breaks. Rarely does the guy winching or being snatched look like an ass. It a recovery video.... :lmao:

If you're planning a SAS, and believe to be wanting to hit trails where you'll need a front locker, you'll probably want a winch. How about collect all the parts you need for the SAS and locker. And instead of doing the locker install twice you get a simple trail gear winch plate, and a winch. If that rear locker can't get you there and out, the winch will, and it will remain useful even after the SAS is complete.

I've been running spacers on the front.

 

[DeclansDaddy]

If you're planning a SAS, and believe to be wanting to hit trails where you'll need a front locker, you'll probably want a winch. How about collect all the parts you need for the SAS and locker. And instead of doing the locker install twice you get a simple trail gear winch plate, and a winch. If that rear locker can't get you there and out, the winch will, and it will remain useful even after the SAS is complete.

I've been running spacers on the front.

Yes a winch is on my soon to buy list. Thinking about just slapping a Trail Gear front bumper on her to mount the winch. Which leads to the debate, Stinger or no Stinger. I'm not big on the look of it and also not sure I'll ever intentionally put myself in a situation that I'll need it but I guess better safe then sorry.

Update- I'm getting the usual Craigslist run-around about the front axle. Doesn't answer me, then not sure about the gear, then he might keep it.... You know, the usual BS. All well they pop up a lot around here.

So as of right now the rear locker is in the mail, front bumper is next on the list and then a winch. Then I'm gonna tune her up and take her for a trip to Shoe Creek. Word is that it's not much more than a dirt lane with a few hills so I guess that'll be a good spot to test her out. Maybe we'll get some snow soon too so that'll make it more fun.