Do I do all or none of the above?

[augustin25]

My wife's 95 4runner started running rough at start-up a couple of months ago but would smooth out once it was warm. A couple of weeks ago it started running rougher, hesitating and is just running poorly. Dealer says the plugs and spark plug wires are the cause, so no biggie to change them.

While there they noted that it's never had the recalled head gasket replaced. They recommend I have them replace it, and while they're at it, the leaking valve cover gaskets and the valve seals. They said the head gasket and valve cover seals would be done free of charge but it's $800 for the valve seals. I have two issues: 1) my father in-law, who maintained it before my wife and I moved, doesn't want us to replace the head gasket because it's made it 190,000 miles and we should leave well-enough alone. 2) I'm unemployed right now and money is tight, so replacing the valve seals will be a serious burden.

My choices are:

1) Replace only the plugs and wires and decline the new head gasket, leaving myself liable if the gasket does blow down the road and with leaking valve seals. Basically I'd be resigning myself to the vehicle not lasting much longer.

2) Replace the plugs and wires, head gasket and valve cover gaskets, which leaves me knowing that the the valve seals are still leaking. Not sure how much better this is than option 1.

3) Replace all of the above, which will be a serious financial strain, but hopefully add some life to the engine. Even if we can swing it, I am wondering if it's really worthwhile in light of the age and mileage of the vehicle.

Sorry for rambling, it's been a long, stressful day trying to figure out what to do. I appreciate any opinions.

 

[vreference]

I think the question might be: are we talking "Valve-Seats" or "Valve Seals"? Valve seats sounds more likely to be an $800 job.

Valve Seats are essentially all or nothing and if there was a failure you'd know fast; burned valves make for a poor running engine. A burned valve will show up as a dead miss (the cylinder never fires) and can be easily detected by a compression test or visual inspection while the heads are off. This MAY be the root of your running issue; as the valve get worse the engine will progressively run worse.

Valve Seals would probably be the rubber seals that go over the valve stem and keep oil from draining down into the ports/combustion chamber. Failed Valve seals generally don't have an adverse effect on the way an engine runs. Can be accompanied by a tell-tale puff of smoke at startup. The guide is still responsible for oil control and these can always be put on later - they do not REQUIRE the head(s) to be removed although a Carelessly dropped valve could win you a call from the shop regarding the impending removal of a head.

Valve Guides weren't mentioned but would be another costly issue; I don't know that one would worry about Seats and not guides or vice-versa.

I'm not sure how the replacement deal is working right now; if You can't participate once you've declined then I would get it done and pass on the "seals." If it turns out the "seals" are "seats" and they show you a destroyed valve then it has to be done anyhow - the engine will not (for all intents and purposes) run with a burned valve.

 

[augustin25]

Thanks. My dad asked me if the service adviser said "seats", but I swear she said "seals" on the phone this afternoon. I know she said that the compression test was ok, but that we should change the seals because the oil leak probably contributed to the plugs going bad. And yes, the adviser said if I decline to have the head gasket changed now Toyota is no longer liable.

 

[vreference]

Considering how bad most dealers are and it has made it a 190K it might be worth leaving. If the compression numbers are up to snuff then it doesn't currently have a head-gasket or Valve-seat issue. Any mistake made by the dealer will end up costing you. Your dad might be on the right track. If it turned out mine hadn't been done I'm not sure I would have it done as it's at 134K. At almost 200K it does seem like you are probably good to go so long as it's not overheated. The other issue is that if they machine the heads your engine can become an Interference Valve-train where a Timing-Belt failure will mean a new engine instead of an afternoon in the driveway.

Valve seals would not be causing your problem unless they have fouled the plugs. If so, replace the plugs as needed and deal until you can afford to have the work done. Plugs and Wires you could do your self on the cheap - or let them do it. Yeah depending on how bad they are they could be causing the issue. Hopefully they've put it on a scanner; there shouldn't be much doubt as to why it's running so bad.

 

[fourwd1]

It sounds like the dealer is up to something.

1) Toyota is not going to authorize the work if the head gasket isn't blown.
2) I don't think it covers valve guide seals.
3) I think that recall is over.

Search to find the TSB to verify 2) and 3).

Replace the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor yourself and see how it runs before you do anything else.

And have another dealer look at it before you consider any major work.

 

[augustin25]

From what I've read elsewhere there is no time or mileage limit on replacing the headgasket if it's still the original. But I still think something's not right with the dealership. When she called she rattled off this entire list of work I should have done without ever explicitly saying what was causing it to run rough. When I pushed her on it she said the gasket is not blown. So I asked if the plugs and wires were the cause of it running poorly and she said the tech felt that was "contributing to the poor performance." I'm waiting for them to call me back now to try and get a better explanation. I'm unhappy that I have to decide right now if I want to the gasket replaced or lose recourse forever.

 

[vreference]

Call another dealer, if there's anyway to speak to the service manager ask them if that's right: That if you decline the gasket work now you can't have it done later. If you decide to have it done be carefull that they don't sucker you into big-money for other problems. Someone there should understand that you brought in a drivable vehicle and you will be leaving with a drivable vehicle even if you decline other repairs.

 

[augustin25]

Thanks for all your replies. I did call another dealer and the service adviser told me I can still take it to any dealer and get it replaced as part of the service campaign. I also got a a better explanation of what the tech said: the a plug in cylinder 4 was fouled, and he recommended that I replace all spark plugs, the wires, the valve stem seals, and the head gasket because it's still the original.

Is it strange that after they pulled the plugs, inspected them and put them back in that it's running a lot better? I mean almost as good as it was before any of this started.

 

[Still looking]

that could be a loose plug or a loose plug wire then when they put it back together they tightened it up so it ran better.