Do Lower Ball Joints fail even on stock 4Runner's?

[speedgoat]

All the pics of failed LBJ's I've seen are of trucks that are lifted, have front bumper/winch or both. If my truck is all stock is this still somthing that can and will happen? Maybe less likely on stock trucks?

 

[PitbullRescuer]

Somewhat less likely but yes they WILL fail eventually. Cheap insurance, change them.

 

[bak3rme]

can u guys explain how lifting can cause stress on LBJ and or wheel bearings especially? I dont understand the mechanics behind it

 

[Elton H]

lifting will change the angle of the ball joints

 

[PitbullRescuer]

can u guys explain how lifting can cause stress on LBJ and or wheel bearings especially? I dont understand the mechanics behind it

It's two fold.

1.) you're changing the angle that the LBJ is stressed at.
2.) Generally, when you lift, you also run larger (thus heavier) tires which also add stress.

 

[econhonda]

This is actually a good question. I did a brief search and only found instances of lifted vehicles with LBJ failures in this forum. I may have missed it though. I would still replace once I hit 150K, but it's a good question.

 

[masphx]

I bought a 1998 4R with 170,000 miles. Truck has no rust but it seems you guys will still say to replace. Is there a good DIY link to send me to or is it just best to have a shop do it? My suspension is also all original stock so it needs replaced soon. Is that a good to to replace the LBJ or are the two separate jobs. People are also having failures in the UBJ's. Should those be a concern also?

Mason

 

[1985taylor1925]

The lower ball joint extends out of the lower a arm, and when you do a lift you are putting the a arms at a steeper angle. When the a arms are closer to parallel (with the ground) with the lower stock suspension it allows them to swivel up and down easier, so the shocks and coils are doing most of the work in absorbing the shock from a bump. But when the a arms are at a steeper angle and you hit a bump the arm itself is going to absorb more of the shock. The a arms swivel at set points just like a hinge, so when they pivot from a steep agle up toward parallel your tires actually push out wider as the a arms approach parallel. Because the tires are stuck to the ground under the weight of a 5000+ lb vehicle, they dont want to push out, cause this would obviously mean pushing out across the concrete/asphalt, etc. So you create a lot of stress on those lower ball joints when the a arms try to swivel when you hit a bump, because it is forcing the tires outward. In reality the tire is flexible enough so that it can stay planted while the rim pushes out slightly within. But the stress is still created on the lbj's. This would also explain why it seems to happen more often on concrete. Cause obviously theres a lot less friction on dirt, mud, gravel, sand than there is on the road. this is my theory anyway

 

[theizzardking]

The lower ball joint extends out of the lower a arm, and when you do a lift you are putting the a arms at a steeper angle. When the a arms are closer to parallel (with the ground) with the lower stock suspension it allows them to swivel up and down easier, so the shocks and coils are doing most of the work in absorbing the shock from a bump. But when the a arms are at a steeper angle and you hit a bump the arm itself is going to absorb more of the shock. The a arms swivel at set points just like a hinge, so when they pivot from a steep agle up toward parallel your tires actually push out wider as the a arms approach parallel. Because the tires are stuck to the ground under the weight of a 5000+ lb vehicle, they dont want to push out, cause this would obviously mean pushing out across the concrete/asphalt, etc. So you create a lot of stress on those lower ball joints when the a arms try to swivel when you hit a bump, because it is forcing the tires outward. In reality the tire is flexible enough so that it can stay planted while the rim pushes out slightly within. But the stress is still created on the lbj's. This would also explain why it seems to happen more often on concrete. Cause obviously theres a lot less friction on dirt, mud, gravel, sand than there is on the road. this is my theory anyway

also you forget that most of the ball joints in use right now have been worn and stressed for 10 years and 150k+ miles and then all of the sudden putting a lift on and changing the wear pattern/angle of wear and can cause an even more rapid failure, as once you replace your lower ball joints after your lift you should be good , the ball joint is a socket so the angle shouldn't be too much of an issue unless it's an extreme difference but most lifts on here don't seem to do that. your right on a certain level, i just think there's a bit more to it then that and even more then what i'm putting here as well.

 

[IanB]

All the pics of failed LBJ's I've seen are of trucks that are lifted, have front bumper/winch or both. If my truck is all stock is this still somthing that can and will happen? Maybe less likely on stock trucks?

Do owners of stock 4runners even post on forums, so that if they did experience a failure anyone online would ever hear about it? I'm guessing if a stock 4runner LBJ failed, only the dealer would ever know when the truck came in for repairs. Just saying.:reddance:

 

[1985taylor1925]

also you forget that most of the ball joints in use right now have been worn and stressed for 10 years and 150k+ miles and then all of the sudden putting a lift on and changing the wear pattern/angle of wear and can cause an even more rapid failure, as once you replace your lower ball joints after your lift you should be good , the ball joint is a socket so the angle shouldn't be too much of an issue unless it's an extreme difference but most lifts on here don't seem to do that. your right on a certain level, i just think there's a bit more to it then that and even more then what i'm putting here as well.

Ya. basically corrosion, wear and the stress from increased angle seem to be the main ingredients for failure

 

[PitbullRescuer]

Do owners of stock 4runners even post on forums, so that if they did experience a failure anyone online would ever hear about it? I'm guessing if a stock 4runner LBJ failed, only the dealer would ever know when the truck came in for repairs. Just saying.:reddance:

Don't all 4Runners start out stock? The OP's 4R is stock, mine is stock for now. My last one was stock when I bought it, then after a little bit I started modding it.

I get what you're saying, the ratio of modded:stock 4Runners on any given forum should be pretty high. But the OP brought up a good question and really, that's what the forum is for, to help each other out.

 

[IanB]

Don't all 4Runners start out stock? The OP's 4R is stock, mine is stock for now. My last one was stock when I bought it, then after a little bit I started modding it.

I get what you're saying, the ratio of modded:stock 4Runners on any given forum should be pretty high. But the OP brought up a good question and really, that's what the forum is for, to help each other out.

I thought I was helping, lol. Basically, I'm saying that just because the majority of LBJ failures on the forums occour in modded 4runners, that doesn't mean stock ones don't have failures too, just that you are less likely to hear about them on forums. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

 

[PitbullRescuer]

All good. Actually, you're '96 is very similar to the mods I did on my '99. And will be very similar to the set up I run on my Budget Build Project.

 

[liv2bike]

People are also having failures in the UBJ's. Should those be a concern also?

Mason

X2. Any thought guys? Would y'all recommend doing upper and lower ball joints at the same time on Runners that are rolling at stock height? Thanks.

 

[theizzardking]

X2. Any thought guys? Would y'all recommend doing upper and lower ball joints at the same time on Runners that are rolling at stock height? Thanks.

i might be wrong on this, and don't let me stop you from keeping your rig up to snuff, but i don't think the uppers are as crucial and the lowers, i haven't seen anyones wheels shooting off down the road ahead of them from the upper ball joint failing, i can't give you the tolerances of play acceptable in the upper ball joint either, but like anything check the boots are in good standing, not visibly corroded or damaged and if you happen to have everything taken off jiggle it around and see if there's much movement in it.

 

[IanB]

i might be wrong on this, and don't let me stop you from keeping your rig up to snuff, but i don't think the uppers are as crucial and the lowers, i haven't seen anyones wheels shooting off down the road ahead of them from the upper ball joint failing, i can't give you the tolerances of play acceptable in the upper ball joint either, but like anything check the boots are in good standing, not visibly corroded or damaged and if you happen to have everything taken off jiggle it around and see if there's much movement in it.

X2, UBJ failures are far less dramatic than the LBJ, less chance of losing control of the vehicle, less chance of causing other damages when/if it does fail. What makes the LBJ such a big deal, is when it fails, you are fixing a lot more than just the LBJ, and you will be lucky if you weren't in an accident with another vehicle or stationary object.

Maybe the UBJ does fail just as frequently as the LBJ, but it isn't as big a deal if it does.

 

[BlindShepherd]

Stock 4runner LBJ Failure

My 96 4runner LBJ Failed today going about 5k. The Truck has 300 000 kms on it and was driving Great. I was however going to replace the Shocks and had Taken it to a Shop to have the Front end inspected yesterday. The gave me an all good on the Front end nothing to worry about. 27 hours and 180kms on one of Canada's Deadliest roads the Ball joint dropped out IN a parking lot. No damage. Except the ball joint and CV joint. As far as I can See.
Will see in the morning What the Shop has to say about it all.