dreaded transmission shuddering

[useport80]

i've posted this on a few forums to get insight on what my options are.

my 08 4runner started having the shuddering about 1-2 weeks ago. i have about 160k miles and i dont believe i've done any transmission service. i've watched a bunch of videos and it seems like the typical shuddering.

i've already called my local shop and made an appt for the 21st, which was the first available. they said a simple trans fluid flush might a quick easy fix but should i ask them to drop the pan, replace gasket, new filter, and check torque converter? he estimated < $400 to do the in depth service.

i just got a flush completed from a reputable shop, and they added the shudderfixx(that i provided, two red pouches) and it's actually made the shuddering WORSE. now the car shudders in even the low gears, prior to the repair, it would only happen in when i was at higher speeds(40mph and while in D). is there a break-in period for shudderfixx or for the new ATV to do it's magic? kinda gutted, im at 155k miles and i expected this car to last longer. i've driven about 20-30 miles since the fix and it's still happening. i'd hate to have to get a new trans or replace the torque converter.

surprised that a drain and fill is recommended versus a full flush.

any other options? would adding in one more pouch of shudderfixx help at atll?

i'll be calling the repair shop today to see if they have any other viable options.

 

[aemravan]

Not sure which "shudderfix" you are using, but I did hear some good stuff about Wynn's (Shudderguard - Wynns USA)

as far as dropping the pan/filter change... in my opinion that is likely a waste of time.. the filter is a metal mesh and is meant to last a life time of the vehicle as far as I know.. the likely hood there is something wrong with your filter is next to none.. As far as inspecting the torque converter.. I'm not sure exactly what they would do.. it was my understanding that the shudder could be anything from fluid condition/level, failing converter, bad/failing valve body, etc.


The fact that your shudder got worse between the original problem and post first drain/refill would suggest that it is something fluid related, rather than a physical failure to either the transmission or converter..

I highly doubt keeping dumping shudderfix into the mix will resolve the issue.. it may possibly be what is causing to be worse.. I'm not sure exactly what you used or how much of it is supposed to go in, but you did mention 2 pouches.

What did they use for the fluid while they were changing it? When you say flush, did they actually do a complete flush of the system? If so.. it's quite possible that doing yet another change and/or flush could resolve your issue.. depending on how they did the flush there's a chance you may still have some gunk that was broken loose.

 

[useport80]

i bought the instant shudder fixx by lubegard(Instant Shudder Fixx - Lubegard) which seems highly recommended. i bought two tubes and left them in the cup holder and when i picked up the car from repair, both were gone, so im assuming they put in both pouches.

they did a whole flush, it was like 3-4 cubes/blocks they said and came out to be like $350. i can't remember how many quarts total but it was def more than the typical 3-5 quarts when doing a drain and fill.

im going to call the shop and see if they can do another flush, but it sucks to pay another $350 for it

 

[Bluesky 07]

i've posted this on a few forums to get insight on what my options are.

my 08 4runner started having the shuddering about 1-2 weeks ago. i have about 160k miles and i dont believe i've done any transmission service. i've watched a bunch of videos and it seems like the typical shuddering.

i've already called my local shop and made an appt for the 21st, which was the first available. they said a simple trans fluid flush might a quick easy fix but should i ask them to drop the pan, replace gasket, new filter, and check torque converter? he estimated < $400 to do the in depth service.

i just got a flush completed from a reputable shop, and they added the shudderfixx(that i provided, two red pouches) and it's actually made the shuddering WORSE. now the car shudders in even the low gears, prior to the repair, it would only happen in when i was at higher speeds(40mph and while in D). is there a break-in period for shudderfixx or for the new ATV to do it's magic? kinda gutted, im at 155k miles and i expected this car to last longer. i've driven about 20-30 miles since the fix and it's still happening. i'd hate to have to get a new trans or replace the torque converter.

surprised that a drain and fill is recommended versus a full flush.

any other options? would adding in one more pouch of shudderfixx help at atll?

i'll be calling the repair shop today to see if they have any other viable options.

Did they do a flush or an exchange? They're different.

I'm a fan of a full exchange over a drain and fill. I'd never do a pressured flush at 100K+ miles. There are numerous threads on how to do the full exchange using the cooling lines. The advantage is in the result - the transmission is filled with new fluid but doesn't get debris breaking free as a pressured flush might do.

You didn't mention what fluid is in the truck. Did you buy your 4R new? If so, you should have Toyota WS fluid; if not, who knows what may be in there and maybe that's part or all of the problem. And what did they put in when they did the flush or whatever it was?

You will find many, many opinions on sticking with WS (I say yes) vs. using an aftermarket option like Maxlife that claims their fluid is compatible with lots of vehicles. WS isn't that much more expensive if you can buy it online from Toyota and either pick up at a dealer or take advantage of free shipping. My rationale is that I know WS works and I'm not willing to gamble my transmission on whether the other stuff does.

 

[useport80]

Did they do a flush or an exchange? They're different.

I'm a fan of a full exchange over a drain and fill. I'd never do a pressured flush at 100K+ miles. There are numerous threads on how to do the full exchange using the cooling lines. The advantage is in the result - the transmission is filled with new fluid but doesn't get debris breaking free as a pressured flush might do.

You didn't mention what fluid is in the truck. Did you buy your 4R new? If so, you should have Toyota WS fluid; if not, who knows what may be in there and maybe that's part or all of the problem. And what did they put in when they did the flush or whatever it was?

You will find many, many opinions on sticking with WS (I say yes) vs. using an aftermarket option like Maxlife that claims their fluid is compatible with lots of vehicles. WS isn't that much more expensive if you can buy it online from Toyota and either pick up at a dealer or take advantage of free shipping. My rationale is that I know WS works and I'm not willing to gamble my transmission on whether the other stuff does.

it's an 08 urban runner, that i bought brand new. i have about 155-160k miles right now. i should have the stock toyota fluid.

to my knowledge, it's a full flush. i specifically asked and wanted to make sure it was a full flush and they agreed on a full flush also.

i'll run out to my car to take a look at the service order to see exactly what was done and what fluid was used. i just can't seem to remember right now.

 

[Drcoffee]

If they used a machine to flush, the damage may already be done. What I would do if I were you, is grow a pair, get some tools and do a full fluid exchange with 12 qts of Toyota WS ATF. I LOVE THE THREADS THAT CLAIM THEY WENT TO A “HIGHLY REGARDED,” “VERY TRUSTED”, “BEST-EST MECHANIC IN TOWN” TO DO THE JOB. And we all believe unicorns exist too. Spoiler, they all don't exist.

=> Find the thread on atf exchange using the cooler line. It shows you how to get the ecm into trans temp mode as well as how to do the exchange. Take an afternoon off from XBox and spend the time under your truck.

Or just go buy a new truck. There are 3 types of people
1) those that can’t afford a mechanic & have to do the work
2) those who can afford it but like to work on their own vehicles (me)
3) those who have money and get their finger nail manicured and own just 1 screwdriver and 1 pair of pliers.

Why so gruff? You start by saying you read all the threads on tranny shudder, which no doubt also discussed not flushing by mechanic shop using a machine. And yet you did just that. And here you are asking for more advice you wont take.

Helpful hint: Buying tools and doing the work will be cheaper than using a mechanic even if you have to do the job 3x. You will still own the tools and learn something at the same time. Life skills are important to our survival.

My best guess is they used the cheapest WS ATF they had in stock and did a drain and fill of 3qts, because you would never know the difference, and they get paid by the job, not by the hour. The crap fluid they used made the shudder worse. Toyota tansmissions were designed for their ATF specifically. Now you need a full flush for sure. And, and because you waited 160,000 miles to service the truck, the new fluid will clean all the crud stuck to internal parts and release them into the new fluid. IMHO I would install a Magnefine 3/8” filter into the cooler line to catch anything flowing thru the tranny. Hopefully that will restore your transmission in a few thousand miles.

 

[AuSeeker]

As been mentioned, hopefully they did a complete fluid exchange and not a pressurized flush, and also with the correct fluid.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is if they actually knew how to properly check the fluid level, there is very precise procedure that has to be done to get the fluid level correct, if they checked it and didn't follow the proper procedure then the fluid level could be under filled or over filled, neither is good and can cause problems.

At this point I would first find out definitely what fluid they used, and if they used genuine Toyota WS fluid then next I would get the fluid level check by someone that definitely knows how to do it.

That being said they may have done everything correctly and it is possible that there are problems with your transmission...BUT I'm suspicious something was done wrong for the shutter to get worse, most everyone has had the opposite and the shutter was gone after a complete exchange, there could be a couple of exceptions but out of hundreds who have changed their fluid I haven't heard of it getting worse, even without adding ShutterFixx.

 

[Bluesky 07]

As been mentioned, hopefully they did a complete fluid exchange and not a pressurized flush, and also with the correct fluid.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is if they actually knew how to properly check the fluid level, there is very precise procedure that has to be done to get the fluid level correct, if they checked it and didn't follow the proper procedure then the fluid level could be under filled or over filled, neither is good and can cause problems.

At this point I would first find out definitely what fluid they used, and if they used genuine Toyota WS fluid then next I would get the fluid level check by someone that definitely knows how to do it.

That being said they may have done everything correctly and it is possible that there are problems with your transmission...BUT I'm suspicious something was done wrong for the shutter to get worse, most everyone has had the opposite and the shutter was gone after a complete exchange, there could be a couple of exceptions but out of hundreds who have changed their fluid I haven't heard of it getting worse, even without adding ShutterFixx.

Great catch, [MENTION=149207]AuSeeker[/MENTION]. This could well be part or all of the issue. You'd think it would have occurred to me given that a shop ended up replacing the transmission in my '02 Xterra after only refilling it halfway...despite the fact that I had brought them Nissan's instructions and the correct amount of fluid. :doh:

 

[AuSeeker]

[MENTION=23066]useport80[/MENTION] , you ask on my profile page how to properly check the transmission fluid, the procedure at a Toyota dealer would be done using a "SST" A.K.A. Special Service Tool to determine when the transmission has reach the proper temperature to check the fluid which is the important part of the procedure....BUT there's a way to determine when it's at that temperature without the SST.... read the #3 post at the following link for how that can be done, that topic covers everything someone would need to know to do the complete fluid exchange themselves if you're so inclined.

ATF Exchange (using the cooling line)

 

[rwh963]

go to a dealer. get a full exchange with the WS fluid. i did that, and it cost something over $200.

 

[Bluesky 07]

go to a dealer. get a full exchange with the WS fluid. i did that, and it cost something over $200.

Definitely an option. That’s how I did it the first time. DIY’d it last time.

 

[doodahoops]

How do you define shudder. I have a bump or shock on a couple of changes?

 

[AuSeeker]

How do you define shudder. I have a bump or shock on a couple of changes?

Most say it's sorta a vibration like running over a rubble strip.