dumb traffic cameras

[leftyguns21]

i hate those [but understand why] traffic cameras. i got a $75 ticket for turning right on a red, ouch. :redbrick:
i remember the day too, i was leaving work and the stupid PT Cruiser in front of me was going 30mph in a 40mph so i missed the light. i knew i was going to get it and i have been waiting for it to arrive but it still sucks the same when i finally got it

i watched the video online and it shows me breaking as i turn right and IMO the light was still pink and i shouldnt have got it :shrug:
ok no its red. but have to try.

at least my car looks good and is clean in the picture

 

[JAC]

Haha....sorry buddy!... but yeah your car looks good!...

 

[004Gunner]

Ok I have to ask. Wtf is a pink light? I've heard it plenty of times but it makes no sense to me

 

[broncosi]

i thought it was when the light wans't really yellow anymore but not quite red yet. A light you drive through a little later than you should. Maybe you should have stopped but, didn’t want to.

 

[broncosi]

My question is, that chevy traverse looking SUV is obviously turning left, which must mean his light is still green(or yellow). And 99% of the time, the corresponding turn signals are green for the same amount of time due to the fact that so traffic from your left could be coming because of the allowance of left turn traffic from your right. Thus, your right turn light should, in theory, still be green.

Make sense?

 

[Clemsonfan15]

My question is, that chevy traverse looking SUV is obviously turning left, which must mean his light is still green(or yellow). And 99% of the time, the corresponding turn signals are green for the same amount of time due to the fact that so traffic from your left could be coming because of the allowance of left turn traffic from your right. Thus, your right turn light should, in theory, still be green.

Make sense?

Yeah. I know what your saying. You can see in the picture though that it's red.

Doesn't make sense for it not to be green though.

 

[illzoni]

Many locales are getting red light camera enforcement altered to not be so stringent on rolling right turns. Rationale is flat-out running a red light is more dangerous and therefore deserving of strict enforcement. On the other hand, what's really at stake if you don't come to a complete stop when turning right on red?

 

[Uneek]

My question is, that chevy traverse looking SUV is obviously turning left, which must mean his light is still green(or yellow). And 99% of the time, the corresponding turn signals are green for the same amount of time due to the fact that so traffic from your left could be coming because of the allowance of left turn traffic from your right. Thus, your right turn light should, in theory, still be green.

Make sense?

Depends on the intersection, if that intersection allows for U-turns (for the Traverse), then there won't be a green arrow for right turns (leftyguns). Some intersections here are "no turn on red" for that very reason.

 

[Uneek]

Many locales are getting red light camera enforcement altered to not be so stringent on rolling right turns. Rationale is flat-out running a red light is more dangerous and therefore deserving of strict enforcement. On the other hand, what's really at stake if you don't come to a complete stop when turning right on red?

A state senator was trying to push for that. Running a red costs somewhere around $400, the senator want to make rolling through or Hollywood stops at a red for $100, since it's less dangerous. I think it got shot down already though.

Depending on locale/municipal and/or camera vendor some cameras and detector loops (the saw cut lines in the pavement) are set to not trigger the cameras if you're going less than 3 or 8mph. I forget the speed.

Rolling through a red on a right turn is the same weight as rolling through a stop sign.

 

[broncosi]

Many locales are getting red light camera enforcement altered to not be so stringent on rolling right turns.

Here in Raleigh NC, our red light cameras cannot see you turn right on red but flash and take pictures anyways. The cameras are too close to the intersection to catch that angle.

Depends on the intersection, if that intersection allows for U-turns (for the Traverse), then there won't be a green arrow for right turns (leftyguns). Some intersections here are "no turn on red" for that very reason.

I understand that, but there is clearly no 'No Turn on Red' sign there and anytime an intersection allows for that left turn to commit a u-turn, while there is a designated right turn only lane(like the one leftyguns was in) it has a sign stating 'U-turn Must Yield'

I would investigate and check out that intersection. I was in a wreck where i was almost charged for running a red light which would have been the cause. I pay attention when i drive and i opposed the fact that i ran it. I did check out the intersection the next day and the yellow light on that intersection was rated for a 25 MPH zone making it a good 4-6 seconds off what it should have been for a 50 MPH zone.

 

[leftyguns21]

i watched the video and it had just turned red when i was approaching so the other cars were already in the intersection when the light was yellow i assume. of course they may have received tickets too for all i know? it is a no turn on red light and i came up and rolled through the intersection.

a pink light is the transition between yellow to red. broncosi description is dead on. perfect way to define it.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I think the pink light is also wishful thinking you made it through since if you can see it changing you should've stopped for the red since it was full yellow for a bit before that. Yellow doesn't mean "go faster".

Remember how our economy is right now and municipalities are nailing people for everything with little and no leeway when it comes to income revenue..

 

[leftyguns21]

Remember how our economy is right now and municipalities are nailing people for everything with little and no leeway when it comes to income revenue..

which is why i didnt even bother 'fighting' it. its pretty obvious so i wouldnt get far, only delay the penalty.
and if you pay it late its an extra $64 in fines. thats an astronomical late fee

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Red Light Cameras


They always like to claim that such cameras are installed for "safety" reasons......but most anyone with a brain knows the real reason is to generate revenue.

First, they could reduce or eliminate a lot of accidents by changing the timing of the lights - perhaps by a second or two of delay before cross traffic gets the green.

Second, at intersections that have red-light cameras, the yellow is often shortened by one second - which means that 15 to 20 percent more cars will be seen as "running" the red light. Don't believe me? Go look at the typical yellow light for a 45-mph zone; which is often 4 or 4 1/2 seconds. When they have a camera there, it is not rare for the yellow to be shortened to 3 or 3 1/2 seconds. (A yellow should be 4 to 5 seconds in a 40 to 50 mph zone -- and at least 5 seconds for highways posted at 55 mph; and we all know that some traffic goes even faster than the limit.)

Trust me on that, as I drive tractor-trailers for a living. Ain't no way I can stop from 50 or 55 mph for a four-second yellow light if I am rather close to it. Nothing worse than that twilight zone of "should I stop or should I go" when approaching a stale green light. My rig is also about 63 feet long!
:surfer:

Third, most of those cameras are owned by private companies who contract with the locality where the intersection is located. They typically get a cut of 15 to 25 percent of all revenue generated by tickets 'issued' by the camera. Can you say conflict of interest? Sure you can!


P.S. When those cameras are used and signs are posted (as was the case here in VA), intersection collisions did decrease somewhat, but more "rear end" crashes went up because of people slamming on their brakes at a yellow light they normally could have passed through quite easily.

 

[Uneek]

I understand that, but there is clearly no 'No Turn on Red' sign there and anytime an intersection allows for that left turn to commit a u-turn, while there is a designated right turn only lane(like the one leftyguns was in) it has a sign stating 'U-turn Must Yield'

I would investigate and check out that intersection. I was in a wreck where i was almost charged for running a red light which would have been the cause. I pay attention when i drive and i opposed the fact that i ran it. I did check out the intersection the next day and the yellow light on that intersection was rated for a 25 MPH zone making it a good 4-6 seconds off what it should have been for a 50 MPH zone.

I don't know about your state or lefty's, but it's not the case here. If it's red, it's the same as a stop sign prior to making a turn. A U-turn is two left turns where there is left turn green light, so most intersections around here, the U-turn vehicle has the right of way.

I agree that definately take a look at the yellow light duration and the speed limit. One nearby city here threw out all their red light camera citations because the yellow light durations were shorten and did not meet the state minimum for the speed limits.

 

[leftyguns21]

darn. i already paid the infraction. you mean i could have gone and timed the yellow and seen if it was timed right?
oh well too late to fight it now anyway

 

[Ron Helmuth]

no before and after shot to verify against

I am with you leftyguns...what makes the infraction hard to defend against is there is no representation of the context of before and after -just the shot of you entering on red.

As you say the guy ahead of you led to some part of the trouble-but they don't show that... for all we know you were rolling on yellow and it had turned red on you, after all the speed indicated is 16mph. It's not like you were stopped then floored it on the red... or maybe you did.. there is no context to the photo sequence-you are simply presumed guilty unless you can prove your innocence and the general thought is "the camera doesn't lie..."

You have to pick your battles....I know that intersection and if you drive cautiously you practically get rear ended, so it is a fine line on speed and so on.

In Denver what burns my butt is the photo radar flash cameras. They park a minivan illegally on a sidewalk and flash a bright light to snap the photo. I have seen several drivers swerve as if blinded by the flash. They say they post a legal sign at some prescribed distance, but unless you are in the far right lane of traffic said sign is easily hidden by another vehicle or a parked car. Then regardless of who is driving the ticket is sent to the registered owner of the vehicle. In essence they target the license plate owner and intimidate you into paying to avoid 3 or more court appearances to fight it.

My ex got several of those while still driving on my license plates. They supposedly match up a photo.. but hey did they take your photo when you got your plates? Of course not...They just send you a ticket and dare you to fight it.

Money grab plain and simple. I putter around as much as possible now at the speed limit and get flipped off for doing so...I made a completely legal slow speed left turn the other day and some soccer mom in a minivan yelled at me "f***ing idiot".

You can't win for love of trying these days....

 

[nquaint]

wait... you can't turn right on red in colorado? lame, guess I should stop doing that.

>edit, nvm just looked it up,

According to CRS 42-4-604, one may make a right turn on red if:

- they come to a complete stop
- they yield to pedestrians
- they yield to other traffic legally using the intersection
- no signs are posted otherwise (for example, "no turn on red")

 

[broncosi]

I am with you leftyguns...what makes the infraction hard to defend against is there is no representation of the context of before and after -just the shot of you entering on red.

Typically there are 2 shots. One of you running it, and one of your plate. Then there is also a short video of you going through the intersection. So they have plenty of proof the car ran the light without stopping. The speed thing really doesn't matter since regardless of your speed your still running it.

The only time the speed might make a difference is when someone runs a red light but slams on brakes quick enough that they stop, maybe before both front or rear tires cross the white line. Then the ticket would show 0 MPH and they may not even bother to send one out. But that window is very very small.

Regardless of who is driving the ticket is sent to the registered owner of the vehicle. In essence they target the license plate owner and intimidate you into paying to avoid 3 or more court appearances to fight it.

There is a simple affidavit you fill out stating it wasn't you driving and who was driving(ie your ex). They go after them. End of story.

They just send you a ticket and dare you to fight it.

The best advice I can give to anyone about dealing with this kind of stuff is to be incredibly nice to whoever your talking with. Every time i have talked with one of the people involved with this operation, they've sounded like they hated their lives. Go easy on them. And second, know the laws. Like we were discussing earlier. Exhaust your options like affidavits, yellow light times, check that the "red light camera ahead" sign is in tact and easily viewable(not covered by overgrown trees), and so on.

Go through all of those and if nothing prevails, your on to creating a story to appeal the ticket. For instance, Leftyguns rolled through that light because an emergency vehicle was approaching behind him with lights and sirens. Get creative. Is this a lot of thought to put into a simple ticket? For someone like me who doesn't have $75 to throw away, hell no!

 

[RonMAIDEN]

There are some intersections in all states that don't allow right turns on red but they do seem far and inbetween where I drive thankfully.

I understand beefs with some traffic infraction but you can't complain about speeding tickets since if you don't want one then drive the speed limit. I've gotten plenty of speeding tickets and I couldn't argue even one of them.:crybaby: