e85 conversion kits

[honda99ex]

This might be sacrilegious but has anyone ever put one of the e85 conversion kits on a 5th gen? Or a 4.0L? Change2e85 or similar... I read a 12 page post on the FJ forum where they teased that they were going to be the guinea pig but doesn't look like they followed through...

I would be doing this for mostly moral reasons and not performance / fuel economy reasons. On basically stock vehicle.

I have e85 near me so that's not an issue. I do live in the NE where it's cold but depending on what you read this should not be a problem. Then there's the whole 'the parts are different (or not again depending on who you believe) between flex fuel and non flex fuel vehicles'. Debating doing this on either or both of my current vehicles. Yay or nay? Kit recs?

 

[jhguth]

E85 is worse for the environment if that was your moral reason

I say nay on ethanol, use as little ethanol as you can

 

[epjfsa]

E85 is worse for the environment if that was your moral reason

I say nay on ethanol, use as little ethanol as you can

And almost always ends up costing more from the resulting drop in fuel economy.

 

[honda99ex]

E85 is worse for the environment if that was your moral reason

I know that's thrown around a lot but is that really true? Or how do you mean? On the front end, Most people use the food vs fuel debate but ethanol depending on how and what it's made of is 'better' for the planet. On the back end, it definitely burns cleaner.

The other moral part is oil dependence is not good for the USA.

 

[ryan87]

The other moral part is oil dependence is not good for the USA.

it sure keeps me employed

 

[thennen]

I know that's thrown around a lot but is that really true? Or how do you mean? On the front end, Most people use the food vs fuel debate but ethanol depending on how and what it's made of is 'better' for the planet. On the back end, it definitely burns cleaner.

The other moral part is oil dependence is not good for the USA.

Whether ethanol is 'better for the planet' is a debatable subject at best. In my personal view, ideas like that are driven by people who don't know for sure and have been sold that idea. Also, USA has become the largest oil-producing country if I'm not mistaken. So oil dependency isn't what it once was, I believe.

And as epjfsa said above, the fuel economy penalty is significant. I think it's in the neighborhood of 20% less than gasoline. Add that to the cost of conversion and what are you ultimately saving?

 

[jhguth]

if your concern is oil independence, don't daily drive a big heavy SUV with awful fuel efficiency

 

[Bayou_Pro]

I did the conversion on my CTS-V but it was for horsepower reasons. On 14psi of boost I can dial in 8 degrees more timing and makes 80hp more on the corn.

What are your reasons for wanting to run E-85? I know the price is an incentive but your mpgs will drastically reduce. It will most likely be a wash on the money but you'll have to invest in all of the parts. Also your ECU will have to have the programming for Flex Fuel as well. Not sure if our computers do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[honda99ex]

Whether ethanol is 'better for the planet' is a debatable subject at best. In my personal view, ideas like that are driven by people who don't know for sure and have been sold that idea. Also, USA has become the largest oil-producing country if I'm not mistaken. So oil dependency isn't what it once was, I believe.

And as epjfsa said above, the fuel economy penalty is significant. I think it's in the neighborhood of 20% less than gasoline. Add that to the cost of conversion and what are you ultimately saving?

Yes we are the largest oil producing country but we (at current) use the most oil. China coming soon. We use more than we produce basically. A lot more. I am not interested in the fuel economy. I think that is a break even proposition - e85 cost less but also basically an equivalent amount less dense.
As stupid as it sounds, I would like to leave the planet a better place for my kid. I realize that likely it isn't going to happen cause a majority of the people do not care. I just wonder why if other countries can make enough energy to export and can do it in a sustainable fashion why we wouldn't do it...

if your concern is oil independence, don't daily drive a big heavy SUV with awful fuel efficiency

I'm not trying to get philosophical. I drive a SUV because I use it to WORK. I'm at or near max payload and I use it to tow. If there was a subcompact that could do these things I would buy that. I tried a crossover type SUV initially which is now my wife's car but it couldn't handle the load even with airbags and then later custom springs. In my line of work, I actually have one of the SMALLER vehicles.


I will rephrase the initial question. Has anybody used an e85 conversion kit and what are their thoughts?

 

[thennen]

Yes we are the largest oil producing country but we (at current) use the most oil. China coming soon. We use more than we produce basically. A lot more. I am not interested in the fuel economy. I think that is a break even proposition - e85 cost less but also basically an equivalent amount less dense.
As stupid as it sounds, I would like to leave the planet a better place for my kid. I realize that likely it isn't going to happen cause a majority of the people do not care. I just wonder why if other countries can make enough energy to export and can do it in a sustainable fashion why we wouldn't do it...



I'm not trying to get philosophical. I drive a SUV because I use it to WORK. I'm at or near max payload and I use it to tow. If there was a subcompact that could do these things I would buy that. I tried a crossover type SUV initially which is now my wife's car but it couldn't handle the load even with airbags and then later custom springs. In my line of work, I actually have one of the SMALLER vehicles.


I will rephrase the initial question. Has anybody used an e85 conversion kit and what are their thoughts?

Since this isn't the place for that discussion, I'll drop it.

 

[Cndnmax]

it sure keeps me employed

Right, the more gas guzzling 4runners the better! :laugh:

 

[honda99ex]

I did the conversion on my CTS-V but it was for horsepower reasons. On 14psi of boost I can dial in 8 degrees more timing and makes 80hp more on the corn.

What are your reasons for wanting to run E-85? I know the price is an incentive but your mpgs will drastically reduce. It will most likely be a wash on the money but you'll have to invest in all of the parts. Also your ECU will have to have the programming for Flex Fuel as well. Not sure if our computers do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for sharing. Honestly some of it is novelty. My other car is out of warranty so it's not like I want to blow it but if it did I wouldn't be heart broken. The engine has always sounded terrible but run fine. Every time I take it in they can't find anything wrong with it. It is naturally aspirated so probably not going to see tremendous gains. I understand the benefits are more for upping boost safely and hp usually. I was just information gathering without having any experience.... The plain jane conversion kits are just couple hundred. Let's just say there are worse things I could do with that money.

I guess I would ask, would you do it again? Thanks for the help.

 

[jhguth]

i don't think a kit exists for the 5th gen 4runner

and i get the desire, my background is agricultural and environmental engineering, but if you are talking land replacement it's food vs fuel or if you are talking separate land it has a greater footprint than oil, so basically no one wins except the corn lobby (which is why e85 is a thing). if cellulosic sources become more economical/popular (my undergrad did a lot wof research into sweet sorghum) it will become a better option, but for now corn is king.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

Thanks for sharing. Honestly some of it is novelty. My other car is out of warranty so it's not like I want to blow it but if it did I wouldn't be heart broken. The engine has always sounded terrible but run fine. Every time I take it in they can't find anything wrong with it. It is naturally aspirated so probably not going to see tremendous gains. I understand the benefits are more for upping boost safely and hp usually. I was just information gathering without having any experience.... The plain jane conversion kits are just couple hundred. Let's just say there are worse things I could do with that money.



I guess I would ask, would you do it again? Thanks for the help.

Of you are asking me if I would do it again? Hell yes. My car is a beast with the added boost and running. I hate it when I can't find corn and have to run 93. Nothing like 750hp daily driven street car!!!!

It wasn't cheap for me to do it though. The flex kit was only $300 but then I had to add a second fuel pump for $1000 and a set of $1100 fuel injectors. Of then the custom ECU tune for $550. Totally work it, YES!!

You are going to see 0 hp increase on a 4runner, at least an increase you will notice. The fuel saving will probably be close to a wash. There are also maintenance issue will E-85 as well. Are you pump and house rated for full ethenol? Combustion Temps are much lower and build up and deposits can be an issue. No way would I personally convert my 4runner to it, nor would I run it if my truck was flex from the factory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Akkording]

it sure keeps me employed

I 2nd that, HTown!

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

I did the conversion on my CTS-V but it was for horsepower reasons. On 14psi of boost I can dial in 8 degrees more timing and makes 80hp more on the corn.

You beat me to the response, sometimes the e85 is a crazy HP gainer. I think the Tundra 5.6 L is flex fuel, does it also get extra HPs with the corn gas? This stuff it everywhere in the Midwest. I only put it in rentals to fill it up to full when I return it.

 

[progress4m]

To OP:

I would not recommend it… Here are some problems I see with ethanol:

1) Cost more to produce than it worth -therefore subsides by Government -AKA taxpayers- so we all are paying for that “experiment”

2) You are burning more oil to collect the corn for ethanol production.

3) Feed corn price are pushed a lot higher (at least 100% higher) because it is now used (wasted) on ethanol production, that propagates all the way from the farm to store shelf and we all are paying for it.

4) Ethanol is much worse than gasoline as a fuel: 50% less efficient, attracts water and it does break down faster than gasoline, increases gasoline vapor pressure, it is very chemically aggressive and eats robber seals\houses- those are made from oil and needs replacement, removes oil from engine parts (including cylinder walls\rings\pistons) therefore decreases the life of the engine and its parts- and in order to replace those you need more oil again…

My $.02.

 

[thennen]

You beat me to the response, sometimes the e85 is a crazy HP gainer. I think the Tundra 5.6 L is flex fuel, does it also get extra HPs with the corn gas? This stuff it everywhere in the Midwest. I only put it in rentals to fill it up to full when I return it.

I think he was saying he tuned his car and did a lot of extra work to take advantage of ethanol's burn properties. But the normal vehicle like the Tundra you mentioned will actually lose horsepower and fuel economy.

 

[mrblah]

Lol I must be immoral

 

[Bayou_Pro]

I think he was saying he tuned his car and did a lot of extra work to take advantage of ethanol's burn properties. But the normal vehicle like the Tundra you mentioned will actually lose horsepower and fuel economy.

Yes I did a lot to make it work right. I do disagree with you on a tundra will lose HP on corn. It should make more hp but a naturally aspirated motor the gain are not much. GMs new 5.3 motor I know is rated for 10+ hp when using Flex.
You are correct on the economy though, it will suffer. The loss of economy will offset the cost savings of the fuel.