Eaton/Detroit Trutrac LSD

[IanB]

I'm looking for something for my open rear diff, and I'm not ready to drop the coin on an ARB setup, and I have 3.58 gearing, so an e-locker retrofit is not going to be an option. We have snow/ice half the year, so an auto locker isn't really what I'm looking for either, as I don't want to worry about the rear end passing me on an icy highway, and my wife may drive it from time to time as well. That leaves LSD's, and the trutrac is a gear driven LSD, rather than clutch packs that wear out and require special diff fluid.

I've done a lot of reading on these today, and the consensus seems to be that they are much better than open diff, transparent during normal use (no clicking or ratcheting, no effect on steering effort on paved roads, etc), but do a great job of transferring torque to the wheel with traction when things get slippery. They do lose effectiveness if a rear wheel is lifted or on slick ice like any other LSD, but applying some brake can help the torque transfer, and I live where it's flat, that will honestly not be a factor that much.

I like to get out wheeling when I can, but that is only 4-5 times a year, so I'm looking mostly for snow/ice/gravel/mud use as far as offroad stuff goes. There are rocks in the area, but until I get sliders I'm not going to press my luck on that kind of terrain.

I'm hoping someone on there has some experience with the rear trutrac setup, and can tell me what they are like to live with through a Canadian winter, and in a daily driver. This will be for my '96 Hilux Surf auto w/ multi-mode 4x4, 265/75/16 Duratracs.

 

[badattitude]

It's a great feeling when you have one rear tire on ice; the other on pavement; hit the gas and Go! I was sick of being stuck at stoplights. I don't have multi-mode so I was hesitent to use 4wd unless the snow was unplowed.

IMO every car should have one. I got mine last February. So I have about 2.5 months of winter driving with it, I'm in Wisconsin. If there was any concern, I'd tell you. The thing is perfect for a DD in the snow belt.

My only coveat is that I've only driven for two months in the snow/ice. But I think that's enought time to form an opinion.

there is absolutly no noise or other feeling other than go-go traction. best part, it's "on" all the time.

 

[J-money$$$]

I personally think they are worthless. THey dont do that much, and they cost a lot. Plus you have to re-setup the diff since its a carrier replacement. So you looking at $500 for the lsd, plus $200-300 for diff setup. And if your using new bearings add a little more. Its going to be right around $750 minimum.

Heres how transparent they are. My friend has a tacoma, I would always take him wheeling and he would always get stuck. Everytime he was stuck only one wheel was spinning So we figured it was an open diff. He orders up a lock right. I pull the third and its a detroit tru trac. It didnt do anything. If one tire can easily spin the other will not. SOOO I found an old open carrier, and set up his diff with a lockright. The tru trac was total junk. And it wasnt worn out or anything. The truck has had two owners and only 30 K miles on it ( Its a 2009) so sometime in 2009 and the first 15K the PO put it in.

 

[JohnsD90]

Always good for elevens's!

 

[rickashay]

Hey IanB,

Just saw your post on CT4WD as well...

I think it depends on how difficult the trail are you plan on running with your Surf. Do you plan on stepping up to 285's and getting a lift down the road?

LSD's are better than an open diff, but like J-money said they may not provide the end result you are going for. Sure they will be worry-free as far as winter driving goes but they are not as good as a dedicated locker. However, I have never had one myself so take my info as a grain of salt. I do know that sometimes in order for the LSD to lock up when your in a "sticky" situation you may need to engage your e-brake, and release it as the LSD begins to engage. I have seen it done many times offroad with people who drive 2nd Gen. TRD Tacomas with the Sport package. This may be a pain in the a$$ for you....

I personally think you should just buy a set of 4.30 E-locked gears. I know you can buy the whole rear clamshell/locker and harness for under $600 if you search (I got mine and the whole rear axle for $400) and you could score the front for probably $150. Then, just a weekend of wrenching with your buddies. In this case your already set, if you decide to step up to 285's.

 

[IanB]

Hey IanB,

Just saw your post on CT4WD as well...

I think it depends on how difficult the trail are you plan on running with your Surf. Do you plan on stepping up to 285's and getting a lift down the road?

LSD's are better than an open diff, but like J-money said they may not provide the end result you are going for. Sure they will be worry-free as far as winter driving goes but they are not as good as a dedicated locker. However, I have never had one myself so take my info as a grain of salt. I do know that sometimes in order for the LSD to lock up when your in a "sticky" situation you may need to engage your e-brake, and release it as the LSD begins to engage. I have seen it done many times offroad with people who drive 2nd Gen. TRD Tacomas with the Sport package. This may be a pain in the a$$ for you....

I personally think you should just buy a set of 4.30 E-locked gears. I know you can buy the whole rear clamshell/locker and harness for under $600 if you search (I got mine and the whole rear axle for $400) and you could score the front for probably $150. Then, just a weekend of wrenching with your buddies. In this case your already set, if you decide to step up to 285's.

I have no plans of going to 285's, but I may lift 2-2.5" in the future. As stated, I have 3.58 gears, and 4.10's or 4.30's would be no good for my powerband, so the e-locker is out, and although I know selectable lockers would be ideal, I honestly don't need them. That leaves auto lockers, or LSD's, and with all the winter driving I'll be doing, autolocker is out. That leaves just LSD's, and the gear type seems to have advantages over clutch type from the reading I've done.

I'm looking for something to help out in the winter, and if it helps offroad then that's a bonus. I don't do enough offroad to make it the priority. So I guess what I'm really looking for, is people's experience with these units in the winter, and daily driving.

 

[catalina34]

I asked LINY about his experience with his front true trac during the winter and he only said positive things iirc. For YOUR needs, it sounds perfect. If you want to hear it from the horse's mouth send him a PM.

 

[rickashay]

I have no plans of going to 285's, but I may lift 2-2.5" in the future. As stated, I have 3.58 gears, and 4.10's or 4.30's would be no good for my powerband, so the e-locker is out, and although I know selectable lockers would be ideal, I honestly don't need them. That leaves auto lockers, or LSD's, and with all the winter driving I'll be doing, autolocker is out. That leaves just LSD's, and the gear type seems to have advantages over clutch type from the reading I've done.

I'm looking for something to help out in the winter, and if it helps offroad then that's a bonus. I don't do enough offroad to make it the priority. So I guess what I'm really looking for, is people's experience with these units in the winter, and daily driving.

The LSD does seem to fit your bill perfectly then. I have heard that if your going to do a limited slip, that your are correct, in going with the TruTrac as it doesnt have the clutches that wear out. I read a great article on LSD tech somewhere (wish I could remember and post the link) and it talked about how an LSD improved traction in the snow even on the highway.... I will try and find it....

 

[IanB]

I personally think they are worthless. THey dont do that much, and they cost a lot. Plus you have to re-setup the diff since its a carrier replacement. So you looking at $500 for the lsd, plus $200-300 for diff setup. And if your using new bearings add a little more. Its going to be right around $750 minimum.

Heres how transparent they are. My friend has a tacoma, I would always take him wheeling and he would always get stuck. Everytime he was stuck only one wheel was spinning So we figured it was an open diff. He orders up a lock right. I pull the third and its a detroit tru trac. It didnt do anything. If one tire can easily spin the other will not. SOOO I found an old open carrier, and set up his diff with a lockright. The tru trac was total junk. And it wasnt worn out or anything. The truck has had two owners and only 30 K miles on it ( Its a 2009) so sometime in 2009 and the first 15K the PO put it in.

This is one of the few legitimate negative responses I've seen in my searching today, most of the negatives have been comparing to a selectable locker so I've been filtering them out as I'm aware of the shortcomings in that respect. Is there the possibility there was any install error, like not setting the gear lash properly or something along those lines? Would the lighter box of a tacoma make this style of LSD less effective? If you were to jack up the rear, would both tires spin the same direction, indicating it was working as intended (I realize you thought the diff was open, hence the question, wondering if you ever took note of this before pulling it apart)? I appreciate the feedback.

 

[maclean216]

This is one of the few legitimate negative responses I've seen in my searching today, most of the negatives have been comparing to a selectable locker so I've been filtering them out as I'm aware of the shortcomings in that respect. Is there the possibility there was any install error, like not setting the gear lash properly or something along those lines? Would the lighter box of a tacoma make this style of LSD less effective? If you were to jack up the rear, would both tires spin the same direction, indicating it was working as intended (I realize you thought the diff was open, hence the question, wondering if you ever took note of this before pulling it apart)? I appreciate the feedback.

When you lift a tire, the Trutrac effectively acts like an open diff.

 

[IanB]

When you lift a tire, the Trutrac effectively acts like an open diff.

Well that answers that, lol. Pretty hard to tell externally that's it's there then.

 

[J-money$$$]

Well that answers that, lol. Pretty hard to tell externally that's it's there then.

Its basically impossible. The gear setup, was and still is fine. THere was no install error. It just does very little. And the cost almost puts you at an arb. Save a little more and buy something worthwhile.

Im locked up front a rear with auto lockers (rear lock right, front aussie) i have $550 in them together and I installed them myself. Dont get me wrong, they are great, but i dont drive my 4runner much, and I know what i wanted.

That being said I think you should save up and get some sort of auto locker. Most people dont want to deal with the quirks of a locked vehicle when driving, An auto locker in the rear isnt too bad in the snow, but it takes time to lean it. In the front is a totally different situation. Spend your money on something you will love and will actually help you when you need it

 

[awpsome]

I don't mean to start ****, but how many of you guys are speaking from experience with the trutracs?
It's totally false that you can't tell if you have it from lifting the axle with a jack and spinning a tire to see if both spin. How do I know? I own one. After installation to test the trutrac for it being installed correctly while the rear end was off the ground we spun one tire and the other spun with it.
Why? Because both are seeing the same amount of traction so there is no "slip"

Yes the trutrac isn't for hardcore offloading yet I wouldn't down it like how you guys say as soon as a tire is off the ground your stuck.
How do I know? Cause I own one and go off roading once in a while.
I got 2wd trutrac in the rear and when one tire goes up either approach the trail at a different line or pull the e brake. It doesn't provide 100% lock but enough to simulate traction to both tires so that you can keep rolling. I have a video to prove this if needed.
It may not work 100% of the time as good as a auto locker but the benefits of no noise and stock driving habits it really is hard to beat. Especially with the helical gear design of matainence free parts it makes it even more better.
To the OP for what your description Describes of what your looking for I'd said trutrac fits very well. I will admit I havent tested snow driving cause it doesn't snow here but id like to back up the trutra and give it a perspective from a trutrac owner.

Once again pelase don't take any of what I wrote offensive or to flame on anyone. Just giving my 2 cents of actual trutrac owner and user for daily driving and once In a while offloading.
For most trails the trutrac will do close to anything. It really comes down to the driver and choosing your lines correctly. Also the driving style is different from a 4wd t4r.
Yea you are prown to more getting stuck then a 4wd but your chances are much less with a limited slip rear. Just be responsible where you road and know your limits.

For your buddies Tacoma getting stuck and seeming like the trutrac isn't there. I might take a guess that maybe it's due to the lighter rear end of trucks vs SUVs.
Less weight to bring the rear down allowing for more slip.

Good tires and the trutrac will do wonders.

Btw they don't cost THAT much. It's 400$ from east coast gear when I bought mines and installation is cheap. If you do most the work yourself. The average wrencher will take off the diff then tale that diff to a shop who can setup duffs because more then likely we won't have the tools to set the backlash. Which is pretty much the hardest parts. You should buy new bearings since your in there anyway which is cheap overall you pay the mechanic to just set the LSD in. That's all. Then bring the diff back install in reverse. It's really not that bad. And best part is they can go on with all diff ratios.
It's not going to cost you much at all for someone to put the LSD in.
I had a buddy of mines do it but he said it's not hard to do at all. So I assume any other shop wouldn't charge much. I can confirm this because when talking to east coast they even said they do it for cheap. Only 1 hour labor if I remember correctly.

Sorry for the long reply. Also any errors might be cause I'm on my iPhone. But once again not trying to start **** with anyone. Just given my opinion.

 

[IanB]

It's totally false that you can't tell if you have it from lifting the axle with a jack and spinning a tire to see if both spin. How do I know? I own one. After installation to test the trutrac for it being installed correctly while the rear end was off the ground we spun one tire and the other spun with it.
Why? Because both are seeing the same amount of traction so there is no "slip"

See this is more what I would have expected, but maclean216 had a trutrac for sale, so I took his word for it.

I'd love to hear from some more snowbelt people on how the are in the winter.

 

[brian2sun]

See this is more what I would have expected, but maclean216 had a trutrac for sale, so I took his word for it.

I'd love to hear from some more snowbelt people on how the are in the winter.

I'm not in the snow belt, but I do get a lot of snow where I live.

I've also wheeled with J-money's friend who had the Truetrac and I have to agree, it was pretty worthless off road. That said, we tend to do a lot of hard trails where we are lifting tires all over the place.

IMO, LSDs are best for high speed off roading. They will help a lot around fast, slippery corners and such. If I had a baja style vehicle, I would go for an LSD. But in an all around off roader, I would save up some more $ and get a selectable locker.

In the snow, an LSD will be better than an open diff in all types of snow. Lockers are great in deep snow, but they suck IMO on packed highway snow. Whereas an LSD will do great for both deep and packed snow. This is how I compare them..

Selectable locker - A+ off road, A+ deep snow, B on the road/packed snow (when it's open)
LSD - B off road, A deep snow, A+ on road and packed snow
Open diff - C+ off road, D deep snow, B on the road/packed snow

 

[IanB]

I found this review during my searching yesterday:

Truetrac LSD Review

If I'm honest with myself, I'm not building this rig for hardcore off-roading/rocks, I'm thinking this could be the way to go for me, in the front diff at the very least. General consensus is that a Trutrac is a good fit for the front diff, even the hardcore offroad guys seem to concede that point, if paired with a locker in the rear.

I'm not prepared to drop the money for a rear locker at this point...starting to wonder if a trutrac in front, open rear would accomplish my goals, and leave the door open to a rear locker down the road? If this is absurd thinking, please feel free to point out why.

 

[sooner02r1]

I had LSD on my last truck, not a true trac however, and I loved it. I'm not a rock crawler or a mud bogger, I like offroading at more than 3mph, and it was perfect for me. higher speed sandy stuff, gravel, fire roads, snow, it made for very predictable steering with the throttle. these offroad forums are dominated with slow speed crawling opinions, but you sound kind of like me, that's just not my thing.

my LSD put good power to both wheels in snow and deep sand and made for fun powerslides in any low traction situation. I'm looking into a truetrac for my runner as well. keep us posted if you bite the bullet.

 

[J-money$$$]

I found this review during my searching yesterday:

Truetrac LSD Review

If I'm honest with myself, I'm not building this rig for hardcore off-roading/rocks, I'm thinking this could be the way to go for me, in the front diff at the very least. General consensus is that a Trutrac is a good fit for the front diff, even the hardcore offroad guys seem to concede that point, if paired with a locker in the rear.

I'm not prepared to drop the money for a rear locker at this point...starting to wonder if a trutrac in front, open rear would accomplish my goals, and leave the door open to a rear locker down the road? If this is absurd thinking, please feel free to point out why.

Labor for install is even more in the front. $300-350 labor + install kit $150 + tru trac ($500) your at a grand. A front arb runs about $1200 installed. Just say this a tru trac installed costs as much as a detroit locker installed. if you want a front tru trac one Maclean has one for sale in the classifieds.

 

[IanB]

Labor for install is even more in the front. $300-350 labor + install kit $150 + tru trac ($500) your at a grand. A front arb runs about $1200 installed. Just say this a tru trac installed costs as much as a detroit locker installed. if you want a front tru trac one Maclean has one for sale in the classifieds.

Maclean's is sold (recently), and I've seen trutrac's new for $400US. What is in the install kit, just new bearings? My truck is fairly low mileage, I had planned on re-using the bearings if possible.

 

[J-money$$$]

Maclean's is sold (recently), and I've seen trutrac's new for $400US. What is in the install kit, just new bearings? My truck is fairly low mileage, I had planned on re-using the bearings if possible.

depends on who is installing it. Some guys will not re-use old bearings. I personally think the carrier bearings will be fine, but you have a good chance of damaging them when pressing them off. You for sure need a pinion kit. This includes a new pinion bearings and pinion seals, and a crush sleeve. These run just over $100, and im not sure if they make just a pinion kit for the front diff. I highly suggest you put new bearings in. You have a new carrier (tru trac) and trying to the the press off/on is hit and miss if you damage anything.

And the labor is assuming you dont know how to set up gears. If you know how to set up diffs then save the money. Its really not that hard once you understand whats going on in there.

and the cheapest i have seen the tru trac is about $450 but i always figure in tax and shipping