Ebay Uniball UCAs (WARNING w/pics)

[Jetboy]

So - the UCAs look very easy to manufacture. My parents own a metal fab shop so I have a pretty good idea of the cost to manufacture the arms - so I figure the chinese ebay ones are reasonably priced for what they are. $320.

Well... I was wrong. They're heavy, look quite nice, fit and finish is good. Welds look good. Powdercoat looks good. I installed them Friday and got the alignment done Saturday. Alignment numbers look great.

Today (Sunday) I ran to Home Depot doing some yard work. Back out of the parking lot and something feels funny.

The upper misalignment spacer split and the design of the hardware means that if this occurs the bolt head is small enough to pass through the uniball and the whole thing falls apart. Looking closely at the spacer shows that it appears to be a cast aluminum part. The area of material where it failed is very small. Additionally the part has a grove right at the spot that both reduces the area of material.

I actually do think I can solve the issue with a few replacement parts, but I'm now a bit gun shy of the rest of the arms as far as quality of the uniball and bushings. I'm sending them back. Not worth the risk IMO.

Lemonade from the situation: I was at home depot - ran inside and bought a bolt, some heavy washers, and a nut. Jacked the thing up in the parking lot - bolted it back together and drove it home to swap back to OEM arms in my garage. I live about 1 mile away on a residential street, so I didn't feel too dangerous doing it.

 

[Jeremy556]

The head of the bolt can fit through the uniball? Yikes. Might want to change that brake line, too.

 

[gm350reratliff]

The head of the bolt can fit through the uniball? Yikes. Might want to change that brake line, too.

That's what I was thinking. I can hear that brake line screaming from here!

 

[Jetboy]

The head of the bolt can fit through the uniball? Yikes. Might want to change that brake line, too.

Yep. And yep to the brake line too. I'm also going to need a new ABS sensor wire. I spliced it for a temporary fix.

 

[Titanpat57]

I don't want to sound like a jerk....but what is/was saved?.....what is your life worth, and the people you share the road with?.... if that happened going 60 it could very well have been catastrophic.

I know some of the pricing of this stuff can be crazy...but Ive never seen that before from some of the better manufacturers.

 

[Jeremy556]

In case anyone else was wondering, like I was, that doesn't happen to have a spare misalignment spacer handy... Here's what a Total Chaos spacer's cross section looks like.

 

[Jetboy]

I don't want to sound like a jerk....but what is/was saved?.....what is your life worth, and the people you share the road with?.... if that happened going 60 it could very well have been catastrophic.

I know some of the pricing of this stuff can be crazy...but Ive never seen that before from some of the better manufacturers.

Fair question. It was about $300 less than comparable ones from the name brands. It could have been bad news at speed. There are lots of failures from the name brands as well. As a comparison OEM aftermarket arms with rubber bushings (rubber is more expensive to manufacture) are about $150 for a pair. There's no reason they should be $600 to move the upper joint about 1 inch. other than about $400 of profit. There are a lot of quality parts from China. These aren't one of them.

These have a dangerous design for the misalignment spacers. The bolt should not fit through the joint. I should have identified that immediately. Also the spacers should be machined steel. - actually the pin should be a one piece machined part not spacers with a bolt. That's a very hokey way of doing it. It's also the way that ICON, Camburg, and many others do it. The primary difference is in materials. Icon parts are steel, not aluminum.

 

[Jetboy]

Before installation - you can see that they're either identical without stickers or a very close clone to the Total Chaos.

 

[Jeremy556]

Before installation - you can see that they're either identical without stickers or a very close clone to the Total Chaos.

They are a copy of the TC design, but are almost certainly not 4130 and they have obviously cut corners in very important places with the hardware. Probably a non-stainless uniball and probably not a grade 8 bolt.

 

[Jetboy]

They are a copy of the TC design, but are almost certainly not 4130 and they have obviously cut corners in very important places with the hardware. Probably a non-stainless uniball and probably not a grade 8 bolt.

That may be the case. IMO 4130 is nonsensical for this application. So that's a waste of money - although we're talking what? $1 or $2 difference in cost, so I suppose it's just a matter of what's easier to use. And then you've got a gusset in the wrong orientation, so there's probably not a whole lot of engineering going on outside of making sure the jig is setup correctly for the right geometry. But the other hardware... probably where the corners are cut. It would be interesting to compare teh misalignment spacers. That's what failed here. If they're aluminum - they're prone to the same failure - especially if they're cast aluminum.

 

[Jetboy]

Just to add some additional info - I torque everything I physically can get a torque wrench on. These are 100ft lbs. That's what I torqued them to. And FWIW - as a comparison to the total chaos - which these are a clone of - the TC version is a fine thread bolt, these are coarse thread.

 

[uptheirons]

I will never understand why people cheap out on aftermarket parts when you've already spent 35-45 thousand dollars (or more) to get a reliable vehicle. if your going to save money on anything when it comes to upgrades, save your money on labour and do it yourself, but don't skimp on buying knockoff parts! you've spent the money on the vehicle, don't replace the reliable Toyota parts with chinese junk!!!

 

[Knight-Errant]

There's no reason they should be $600 to move the upper joint about 1 inch. other than about $400 of profit. There are a lot of quality parts from China. These aren't one of them.

The reason why they're 600 is because US companies and US workers need to make a profit and a living here in the US (as compared to China where they're using slave labor), they sell these parts in small quantities, and since they're made in the USA you know they're going to be built better since they're going to be held legally responsible if you're in an accident.

That 300 you're trying to save is roughly .0075% of the price of your 4runner. I'm not sure you can put a price on your life or your friend's/family member's lives if you were all in the car and had a major accident.

 

[Jetboy]

I will never understand why people cheap out on aftermarket parts when you've already spent 35-45 thousand dollars (or more) to get a reliable vehicle. if your going to save money on anything when it comes to upgrades, save your money on labour and do it yourself, but don't skimp on buying knockoff parts! you've spent the money on the vehicle, don't replace the reliable Toyota parts with chinese junk!!!

Is that like using an iphone for navigation?

JK. Chinese companies produce a lot of good stuff. Lots of American made SPC arms have broken as well. And as you probably know a bunch of Toyota OEM ball joints failed before a recall. There are a lot of these arms in use as well. Lots of tacoma owners run them. I may have just had bad luck. But I wouldn't risk it with these arms.

 

[Jono.ful]

Before installation - you can see that they're either identical without stickers or a very close clone to the Total Chaos.

I run tc uppers and lowers, the workmanship is impeccable. Those welds look like they were sprayed on with a caulking gun from about 2' away

 

[Jetboy]

The reason why they're 600 is because US companies and US workers need to make a profit and a living here in the US (as compared to China where they're using slave labor), they sell these parts in small quantities, and since they're made in the USA you know they're going to be built better since they're going to be held legally responsible if you're in an accident.

That 300 you're trying to save is roughly .0075% of the price of your 4runner. I'm not sure you can put a price on your life or your friend's/family member's lives if you were all in the car and had a major accident.

They can be made a lot cheaper here too. It's just a high profit margin item. It's not like Camburg or Icon are making any of the uniball components in house. Welding up an arm in a jig is pretty easy. I'm guessing a good welder would fab 10 or more of these in an hour. So we're talking maybe $10-20 in loaded labor cost per unit for manufacuring and about $10-30 more for the time to deal with powder coating and package and ship them.

If you are actually serious about safety being a priceless issue, a 4runner is a bad choice of vehicle. It's all a balance.

 

[uptheirons]

Is that like using an iphone for navigation?

JK. Chinese companies produce a lot of good stuff. Lots of American made SPC arms have broken as well. And as you probably know a bunch of Toyota OEM ball joints failed before a recall. There are a lot of these arms in use as well. Lots of tacoma owners run them. I may have just had bad luck. But I wouldn't risk it with these arms.

To be fair, it would be more like going and buying a Samsung Note 7 tomorrow and using it for navigation. (hahaha)

The factory arms are totally different, first off they be covered by warranty, hopefully. Second, you have no choice on those, but you do on aftermarket parts.

Call me crazy, but i do kind of subscribe to the principle of you get what you pay for. Obviously there are exceptions, but generally speaking, it holds true. I bought Total Chaos arms because i read about the problems with the SPC arms, and found absolutely nothing about the TC arms. Saving money is great, but in the long run, it may not be worth it. Buy proper parts, do your research, pony up the cash for good quality parts, you're less likely to run into problems.

 

[Jetboy]

I run tc uppers and lowers, the workmanship is impeccable. Those welds look like they were sprayed on with a caulking gun from about 2' away

Are you a welder? Can you explain a little more about what a weld should look like? IMO the welds look as good as they should underneath a thick layer of powdercoat. Short of either catastrophic testing or cutting apart I'm not sure how to compare. The only thing that I could really observe is that these are likely welded with a much larger welding machine. You'll note they look a lot more like OEM welds on your Toyota.

 

[Jono.ful]

Are you a welder? Can you explain a little more about what a weld should look like? IMO the welds look as good as they should underneath a thick layer of powdercoat. Short of either catastrophic testing or cutting apart I'm not sure how to compare. The only thing that I could really observe is that these are likely welded with a much larger welding machine. You'll note they look a lot more like OEM welds on your Toyota.

Not a welder, no, but an Industrial electrician. I work hand in hand with welders and quality control people in the oil and gas industry. It's not my direct profession, but yes, I can visually distinguish a good weld from a bad one.
Granted, one cannot visually identify good penetration once a part has been powder coated. The appearance of a knocked over stack of dimes is an indication of workmanship, every tc part I have personally seen exhibits this in spades. When someone takes pride in their work, not only does it look pretty, it works as it is supposed to because it is built properly.

Furthermore, tc has race heritage. One would safely assume that if tc used the kind of part that was prone to failure the you experienced, they'd have a real hard time racing on their parts.
**edit**I have also had to replace tc misalignment spacers (due to a seized bolt which had to be cut, long story). Their misalignment spacer come from f&k rod ends. They're 17-4ph stainless steel

 

[Jetboy]

Not a welder, no, but an Industrial electrician. I work hand in hand with welders and quality control people in the oil and gas industry. It's not my direct profession, but yes, I can visually distinguish a good weld from a bad one.
Granted, one cannot visually identify good penetration once a part has been powder coated. The appearance of a knocked over stack of dimes is an indication on workmanship, every tc part I have personally seen exhibits this in spades. When someone takes pride in their work, not only does it look pretty, it works are it is supposed to because it is built properly.

Furthermore, tc has race heritage. One would safely assume that if tc used the kind of part that was prone to failure you experienced, they'd have a real hard time racing on their parts.

In my experience judging a weld by its appearance is pretty hard. The TC welds appear nice in terms of being uniform. They appear to be done with a small welder. I don't know that I could tell much more. To give an example, this is what a Toyota weld looks like. It looks nothing like a weld from a small shop machine. I'd bet it's a pretty good weld. I sure hope so.