Encourage or discourage my t4r TE Purchase!

[FiReBReTHa]

Dump or support my idea. My feelings can take it....

Quick background, mostly suburban driving. light midwestern mud pit "traversing" at the range my friend is building. Was hoping to doing some west coast excursions and camping.

Would like to give it a bit of lift and some fun tires.



I have been looking at used 2014 Trail editions. In the midwest the amount of Trails is minimal. And to make it better I was pursuing white. The next closest was over 100 miles away. Now here is where it gets interesting.

Locally (3 miles away) I found a Trail premium with 28k miles for 33k$
"Downside"

am I going to hate life without it? or should I bite on the local buy?


Thanks guys.... I just needed some input on this big decision.

 

[LandCruiser]

Do eeeit.






...I am an enabler, BTW.

 

[simple]

The person who traded that in could not live another mile without that sweet, sweet KDSS.

It will be fine.

 

[1999LTD]

Just do it!

 

[2nd Chance]

Do eeeit.













...I am an enabler, BTW.

I agree and must be an enabler also

 

[wfo9]

I just don't understand the obsession with KDSS. It is seriously overrated in my opinion. It's OK, but really I would personally pay a premium to not have it (but I have a different use case than most folks).

I was never impressed with any of the ones I drove with a stock suspension (KDSS or not) In fact, the klunk of the KDSS turned me off right away and then when I looked under the truck I immediately knew it was not for me . If you plan to keep it 100% stock... KDSS may be the way to go, but most people who come on here want a bit more).

I would not base your buying decision on that single option.

Just consider this. Toyota developed the TRD pro package as their "icon" performance package... and it does not have KDSS, and for a good reason.... I'm not saying it is some extremely awesome package... but don't you think they would have put it on there if it was something that could not be lived without....

Don't fall for the hype in either direction... make up you own mind. I'm just trying to bring some balance into this place while I'm avoiding a big pile of work sitting in front of me. ;-(

 

[BobsTrail]

:iagree:
I ordered my TE without KDSS to save $1,750. I think it only adds about 2 inches of additional articulation off-road.

On-road I don't push it around curves, I use my son's CTS for fun road driving, but when the pavement ends, it's 4Runner time.

 

[Laurich]

Not without acomparison test first

What hasn't been mentioned yet is test driving. Why not test drive one with and one without KDSS back to back. Take the same route using the same driving style and let that tell you if you'd be fine without it or if you'd miss it?!? Try driving it in various conditions and speeds and aim for some nice pot holes just for fun. Just look for a road in need of repairs, rough surfaces and uneven. You'll get an idea of whether its worth it to you personally or not. See for yourself, enough said. Good luck either way with your decision.

 

[philsey]

So, what is it about this:

..... mostly suburban driving. light midwestern mud pit "traversing" at the range my friend is building. Was hoping to doing some west coast excursions and camping.....
.

..... that requires the TE, much less KDSS? Throw some Billies on the TE or an SR5 for that matter and you're GTG.

 

[NuclearN8]

I would encourage you to buy what you need, not what you want.
For your inteded useage all you need is an SR5.

Go buy a new one and be done with it. The payment will likely be the same or less due to a lower interest rate.

kdss and crawl control are nice but in the end just more electronic shit that can break later in the life of the vehicle (even though right now there's not evidence of this happening).
The most reliable design is the simplest and it doesn't get much more simple than a SR5 4Runner.
Plus with a good set of AT tires and ATRAC, your stomach or mind will stop your offroading adventrues before an SR5 runs out of capability.

negotiate 2-2,500 off a new SR5, that's what I'd encourage.

 

[salong53]

I'm with [MENTION=87178]NuclearN8[/MENTION]. I wanted a Trail like crazy, couldn't find one for a reasonable price, and ended up buying a brand new SR5 for about $4000 less than the price of any nearby used Trail. I'm perfectly happy with my SR5, and once I slapped some new tires on it, the only thing that the Trail has that I envy is the hood scoop. Luckily, the pragmatic side of me says it's not functional; therefore, it's flashy and I don't need it.

 

[Simpleman74]

buy a white SR5 and with all the money saved mod the suspension

 

[sandcrawler]

I just don't understand the obsession with KDSS. It is seriously overrated in my opinion. It's OK, but really I would personally pay a premium to not have it (but I have a different use case than most folks).

I was never impressed with any of the ones I drove with a stock suspension (KDSS or not) In fact, the klunk of the KDSS turned me off right away and then when I looked under the truck I immediately knew it was not for me . If you plan to keep it 100% stock... KDSS may be the way to go, but most people who come on here want a bit more).

I would not base your buying decision on that single option.

Just consider this. Toyota developed the TRD pro package as their "icon" performance package... and it does not have KDSS, and for a good reason.... I'm not saying it is some extremely awesome package... but don't you think they would have put it on there if it was something that could not be lived without....

Don't fall for the hype in either direction... make up you own mind. I'm just trying to bring some balance into this place while I'm avoiding a big pile of work sitting in front of me. ;-(

i sincerely, seriously doubt that the lack of KDSS on the TRD Pro is for the "good reason" that you assume it to be. please consider and remember that the prototype TRD Pro models ALL HAD KDSS. what does that tell you? then, when the production models were finally revealed, KDSS was no longer available. and neither was the moonroof, so it is trivial to connect the dots and understand what motivated Toyota's decisions here.

the lack of KDSS on the Pro is due to, at best, the same reasons you can't get a moonroof on a Pro: marketing, margin, and product mix. it is not performance-based, it is clever marketing and price anchoring to super-maximize margin on a lesser-equipped base model. it's simple, and it's good business, but it's not because the TRD Pro truthfully represents Toyota's "best" — they just understand a certain segment of the market will interpret it that way, and pay a premium for the privilege.

seriously, consider it: Toyota took a base Trail—no moonroof, no KDSS—gave it a distinct paint job, floor mats, some Bilsteins, and for some reason new 7" wheels (which are, in fact, a step down from the stock 7.5" TE wheels) and some people are waiting in line to pay MSRP+ for it. i've never been impressed with Toyota's marketing in the past, but i have to say this is a master stroke. good for them.

moreover, given that the TRD Bilsteins are installed at port in the U.S. (not on the line in Japan) it's also a very, very safe bet to say that Toyota couldn't be entirely certain that the installers wouldn't screw up the KDSS during install. too risky, and not worth jeopardizing their low-volume, high-margin cash cow.

if the Pro was truly meant to embody Toyota's "absolute best" 4Runner, it would have KDSS — just like the Land Cruiser.

 

[Simpleman74]

and if they wanted to further improve it they would just make it an SR5! :hurt:

 

[wfo9]

i sincerely, seriously doubt that the lack of KDSS on the TRD Pro is for the "good reason" that you assume it to be. please consider and remember that the prototype TRD Pro models ALL HAD KDSS. what does that tell you? then, when the production models were finally revealed, KDSS was no longer available. and neither was the moonroof, so it is trivial to connect the dots and understand what motivated Toyota's decisions here.

the lack of KDSS on the Pro is due to, at best, the same reasons you can't get a moonroof on a Pro: marketing, margin, and product mix. it is not performance-based, it is clever marketing and price anchoring to super-maximize margin on a lesser-equipped base model. it's simple, and it's good business, but it's not because the TRD Pro truthfully represents Toyota's "best" — they just understand a certain segment of the market will interpret it that way, and pay a premium for the privilege.

seriously, consider it: Toyota took a base Trail—no moonroof, no KDSS—gave it a distinct paint job, floor mats, some Bilsteins, and for some reason new 7" wheels (which are, in fact, a step down from the stock 7.5" TE wheels) and some people are waiting in line to pay MSRP+ for it. i've never been impressed with Toyota's marketing in the past, but i have to say this is a master stroke. good for them.

moreover, given that the TRD Bilsteins are installed at port in the U.S. (not on the line in Japan) it's also a very, very safe bet to say that Toyota couldn't be entirely certain that the installers wouldn't screw up the KDSS during install. too risky, and not worth jeopardizing their low-volume, high-margin cash cow.

if the Pro was truly meant to embody Toyota's "absolute best" 4Runner, it would have KDSS — just like the Land Cruiser.

I don't know this for a fact, but they most likely removed KDSS because of reliability/compatibility concerns. I'm sure the real engineers were iffy on if KDSS could work at Toyota reliability standards with the TRD lift and they did not want to spend the time or money testing it out. Somewhere along the line Toyota has pushed info down to dealers... saying that KDSS and lifts are not compatible. Wrong or right, it is seems to clearly be their view on the topic.

Additionaly, it does not take a genius to look at KDSS with a lift on and see that the bushings and angles up front are all bound up. Is it a big deal, no. Will it impact how long the bushings last... absolutely.

I'm not saying a lift is a major problem with KDSS. I'm saying it is not recommended from Toyota's perspective. And there are some quirky things that do happen with some (not all) of them once lifted.

As for the sunroof... That is pretty standard practice on many performance packages. Keep the weight down and off the roof. It does not make a huge difference... but the spirit of it makes sense. Not to mention the loss of headroom..

Again, like I have said many times. It is a personal choice with pros and cons. I just feel it is worth giving an alternative point of view since most people that come here get the impression that you can't live without it.

And think about this. Whatever the TRD pro is.. Toyota knew every single auto magazine... would be reviewing it and giving their impressions with tons of publicity.... (which is worth millions) So if KDSS made it so much better and capable... they would not put it on to save a few dollars..

 

[Marcocopuffs]

KDSS? more like KDSSUCKS

 

[ECUDrummer]

I say do it. KDSS is a noticeable difference that I think you'll notice in your case. I sure as hell did in mine (for reference, I work in a cubicle and 95% of the roads I've ever driven on since I've had my 4runner we're paved or concrete). There are PLENTY of us here that have a lift, bigger tires and KDSS.

It's not wrong to say that another additional component such as KDSS will be just another thing that you may or may not have to worry about when it comes to maintenance. Then again, It's not as if you're buying a less reliable brand where quality and longevity go out the window at 100k miles. Why do you think you see yotas in the ME so much (it's not because they're easier to launch a rocket out of)?

I bought mine used and it has KDSS. I'd do it again if I went back in time.

 

[Ellis_McPickle]

OP, I'd say get it, if it's the one you want and fits your budget.
KDSS is cool to have, and does improve cornering, however, it's still a heavy vehicle with a high center of gravity. I previously had a TE with KDSS and currently have a LE without it. Can't say I miss it.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Swampmonger]

I don't know this for a fact, but they most likely removed KDSS because of reliability/compatibility concerns. I'm sure the real engineers were iffy on if KDSS could work at Toyota reliability standards with the TRD lift and they did not want to spend the time or money testing it out. Somewhere along the line Toyota has pushed info down to dealers... saying that KDSS and lifts are not compatible. Wrong or right, it is seems to clearly be their view on the topic.

Additionaly, it does not take a genius to look at KDSS with a lift on and see that the bushings and angles up front are all bound up. Is it a big deal, no. Will it impact how long the bushings last... absolutely.

I'm not saying a lift is a major problem with KDSS. I'm saying it is from Toyota's perspective. And there are some quirky things that do happen with some (not all) of them once lifted.

As for the sunroof... That is pretty standard practice on many performance packages. Keep the weight down and off the roof. It does not make a huge difference... but the spirit of it makes sense. Not to mention the loss of headroom..

Again, like I have said many times. It is a personal choice with pros and cons. I just feel it is worth giving an alternative point of view since most people that come here get the impression that you can't live without it.

And think about this. Whatever the pro is.. Toyota knew every single auto magazine... would be reviewing it and giving their impressions with tons of publicity.... (which is worth millions) So if KDSS made it so much better and capable... they would not put it on to save a few dollars..

Obviously I haven't read every word out there on the subject, but I did just buy a 2016 4Runner and did plenty of research beforehand. I couldn't find any substantive review of KDSS on mainstream auto sites. Sure, they mentioned it in passing, but that was about it. The freakin' Toyota salesmen didn't even know what KDSS was. No one besides us, the owners, seem to care very much about it. I have a hard time believing Toyota made the decision based on what the press would say.

I came to my 4Runner from a 2006 Rubicon without disconnects. With all the washboard and deep water runoff channels in the back roads around AZ I really wish I had them. I should have put on manual disconnects, but I kept holding out for a Currie Anti-Rock (which never came to pass). When I read about the KDSS system which sounded like the AntiRock on steroids I jumped at it. I'm not saying it's necessary, but I don't think it's nothing more than a useless failure point on the truck...and I certainly don't agree that it--as someone so cleverly put it--KDSSUCKS.

 

[catastrofe]

I went from a 4 door Rubicon to a Cherokee Trail to a T4R. Love the Toyota. Miss the erector set nature of mods on the Rubicon, but the T4R is a much better vehicle for road trips and towing. Go for it and don't look back.