Engine coolant swooshing sound

[cleex024]

Hey guys I recently did an engine coolant flush by draining the radiator and replacing with coolant flush by prestone and distilled water...drove it around half a day then drained and replaced with distilled water about 4 times until it seemed almost clear.

Each time I would drain I did not let the coolant cool so I would open the cap with a rag over it and let the pressure out. Well now it seems like there is a water circulating sound most of the time I brake hard or accelerate. It mainly seems like there is air bubbles in the engine which makes the noise but Im not 100% sure.

Has anyone else had this problem after flushing coolant?

 

[DC runner]

Yea. Air. Burp it. Don't mess with it, but open the cap and let it run for a bit. Heat on high, full blast in cab. Have premix coolant to make getting the right ratio easier and just wait.

let it run. 5 or 10 min. Watch the temp level. Should be fine. With the cap off, eventually the system will burp out the air. After it has run for a solid 5 min without you seeing any air bubbles work out, turn it off and let it find its level. If it is low, add some.

Should be good after that. You just worked air into the system.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Hey guys I recently did an engine coolant flush by draining the radiator and replacing with coolant flush by prestone and distilled water...drove it around half a day then drained and replaced with distilled water about 4 times until it seemed almost clear.

Each time I would drain I did not let the coolant cool so I would open the cap with a rag over it and let the pressure out. Well now it seems like there is a water circulating sound most of the time I brake hard or accelerate. It mainly seems like there is air bubbles in the engine which makes the noise but Im not 100% sure.

Has anyone else had this problem after flushing coolant?

Wait are you still using Prestone as the coolant? Because I would highly advise against it to prevent engine damage and electro-chemical issues. The Toyota stuff is specifically engineered for the chemical & metallurgical composition of their engines, the generic stuff is not and tends to cause more issues than you want down the road. Valvoline's Asian Blend is the only coolant beside Toyota's that I have seen documentation for and carries a non-factory warranty that covers damage caused by their coolant (because they are confident in their testing that it meets Toyota's specs.)

That being said, you still need to bleed the cooling system as there are indeed air pockets trapped in the engine and this can cause issues also.

We like to use these at work:

But leaving the cap off and the engine idling while topping it off for about 10-20 minutes works also, the idea is to get the thermostat to open and have the engine circulate the coolant.

 

[lehiguy]

Wait are you still using Prestone as the coolant? Because I would highly advise against it to prevent engine damage and electro-chemical issues. The Toyota stuff is specifically engineered for the chemical & metallurgical composition of their engines

Toyota buys the stuff from somebody, that is all. You have cast iron and aluminum, it's not a NASA project. The only reason any manufacturer would stress buying their particular brand is so they can take more of your money.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Toyota buys the stuff from somebody, that is all. You have cast iron and aluminum, it's not a NASA project. The only reason any manufacturer would stress buying their particular brand is so they can take more of your money.

There's more than just Cast Iron and Aluminum in a modern Engine, Toyota has a different additive package than Honda and BMW.

I had an in depth discussion with representatives from Valvoline on this and they spent a considerable amount of energy and time in R&D to get their Asian Blend Coolant to match Toyota's specifications. This is not the 1980's where anything goes, fluids these days are far more complex and far more tested than before.

As I said, I am only aware of Valvoline's Product because I saw their documentation, testing, and spoke with factory representatives on a very technical level. I have kept an eye out for different brands, but honestly; the Toyota stuff isn't that expensive and lasts a good 80k or so if not exposed to oxygen regularly (part of a larger discussion of modern coolants and cooling systems that I needn't get into right now), if you find the company Toyota buys their coolant from, please let us know; it can't hurt.

This is not just a "Buy Toyota Stuff" its my personal recommendation based on interactions with multiple shops, research, fellow technicians, and non-Toyota courses I have taken on the matter. There is no "Universal" coolant in modern cars, just as there is not "Universal ATF" and "All 5W-30 Oils are the same."

Additional Information:

Toyota does not use Silicates in their coolant because they "drop" out of coolant after a long period of time, plate the inside of aluminum components, and often create a "sand" that can erode internal components (stamped water pump impellers being a popular choice for many brands). There is also additional chemicals to prevent cavitation, electrolysis and premature corrosion of gasket/non-ferrous materials, these are often in varying proportions to other manufacturers due to differences in material choice and design.

Popular Mechanics did a brief article in '99 (yes, 1999) about why you need to be careful with what coolants you pick, http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/products/1272436

I also am looking for my CTi Coursebook and some other information I have around here in regards to coolants. But while you're correct that Toyota buys from another company, that company makes the fluid specifically for them, while many "Universal" Coolants like Prestone try to cover EVERY make and model (much like how some "Universal ATF claims it works in all transmissions including those Nissan ones that use a mineral based ATF) and thus will not work effectively. Sometimes damage can be seen in as little as 10,000 miles, sometimes 100,000+ miles; maybe it doesn't matter to people who won't keep their car long, but some of us intend to rebuild these engines when they give out and keep trucking to 500,000+miles in our 4Runners.

 

[cleex024]

There's more than just Cast Iron and Aluminum in a modern Engine, Toyota has a different additive package than Honda and BMW.

I had an in depth discussion with representatives from Valvoline on this and they spent a considerable amount of energy and time in R&D to get their Asian Blend Coolant to match Toyota's specifications. This is not the 1980's where anything goes, fluids these days are far more complex and far more tested than before.

As I said, I am only aware of Valvoline's Product because I saw their documentation, testing, and spoke with factory representatives on a very technical level. I have kept an eye out for different brands, but honestly; the Toyota stuff isn't that expensive and lasts a good 80k or so if not exposed to oxygen regularly (part of a larger discussion of modern coolants and cooling systems that I needn't get into right now), if you find the company Toyota buys their coolant from, please let us know; it can't hurt.

This is not just a "Buy Toyota Stuff" its my personal recommendation based on interactions with multiple shops, research, fellow technicians, and non-Toyota courses I have taken on the matter. There is no "Universal" coolant in modern cars, just as there is not "Universal ATF" and "All 5W-30 Oils are the same."

Additional Information:

Toyota does not use Silicates in their coolant because they "drop" out of coolant after a long period of time, plate the inside of aluminum components, and often create a "sand" that can erode internal components (stamped water pump impellers being a popular choice for many brands). There is also additional chemicals to prevent cavitation, electrolysis and premature corrosion of gasket/non-ferrous materials, these are often in varying proportions to other manufacturers due to differences in material choice and design.

Popular Mechanics did a brief article in '99 (yes, 1999) about why you need to be careful with what coolants you pick, Choosing The Right Coolant - Popular Mechanics

I also am looking for my CTi Coursebook and some other information I have around here in regards to coolants. But while you're correct that Toyota buys from another company, that company makes the fluid specifically for them, while many "Universal" Coolants like Prestone try to cover EVERY make and model (much like how some "Universal ATF claims it works in all transmissions including those Nissan ones that use a mineral based ATF) and thus will not work effectively. Sometimes damage can be seen in as little as 10,000 miles, sometimes 100,000+ miles; maybe it doesn't matter to people who won't keep their car long, but some of us intend to rebuild these engines when they give out and keep trucking to 500,000+miles in our 4Runners.

thanks for the concern and you are probably right and I would only put the bmw stuff in my bmw but ive always wanted to try out the prestone stuff lol. since i have already have it in there and its a pain the ass to flush it again since its time consuming im going to leave it in there and see how it does.

ill report back if my engine fails within 100k miles but since my car is already 240k miles on it i would be stoked for it to last 100k more anyway. anyhow the swooshing noise is still there and i tried bleeding the way you guys told me too...but i swear there wasnt that many air bubbles coming out and only had to top off a small amount.

there is no coolant leaking or any signs of my water pump going out but i almost feel like my water pump isnt working as efficiently...also my coolant temp gauge only goes up to a certain point and wont go up any higher. you think i should change out my water pump and thermostat? or just my thermostat?

also does the thermostat control the gauge on the dash? because i would like to change out that part too if anyone knows.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

The temperature should actually stay roughly halfway on the gauge and not move, that usually indicates a fairly stable cooling system. The thermostat does control the gauge in the sense that the thermostat's job is to try and keep the coolant below a certain point and maintain a relatively similar temperature through out the engine.

 

[cleex024]

The temperature should actually stay roughly halfway on the gauge and not move, that usually indicates a fairly stable cooling system. The thermostat does control the gauge in the sense that the thermostat's job is to try and keep the coolant below a certain point and maintain a relatively similar temperature through out the engine.

yeah i understand but does it actually control the needle on the dash? cause it doesnt reach the middle but only about 2-3 mm into the middle portion of the temp gauge then doesnt move from there. hopefully nothing is wrong but i get paranoid easily lol.

anyway the car hasnt been maintained well and im just doing a huge tune up on this thing so itll last me a little bit since i wanted a slightly lifted 4runner for a while...im going to put in a a new third member hopefully next week to try to get rid of this noise.

 

[DC runner]

Yea. Halfway is where it should roughly hang out. Each thermostat has a specific temperature it will react with. The 4runners are 190 I believe. How the engine warms up to operating temp is by keeping the theromstat closed, thereby trapping coolant in engine block. Once it hits that temp, the termostat pops open and coolant will now circulate around the block, through the radiator where it sheds excess heat and back again. You have a line that runs from the back of the block, into the car, and then back to the engine. This "hot" coolant is how you get heat.

It is also why you can help cool an overheating car by running the heat full blast. It acts as a second heat dissipation point.

Anyway. A tale tale sign of weak water pump, one that might be on its last legs, will be swings in your engine temp as you drive. All things being in working order, your temp should do as Blackworks suggested: be stable. Once it heats up, the dial shouldn't really move.

If it does, one of the several things it could be is a water pump unable to keep up with demand.

You can also, sometimes, hear an audible whirr or similar noise denoting a broken fin or bad bearings on the pump.
This is hard to do without a stethoscope since the engine muffled it out.

As for the noise. It can be really hard sometimes to get all the air out. The cooling plumbing as bends or curves that can trap the air pocket.


Your engine as a few miles. Can you find out when the last time your pump was replaced? At 240, you should have realistically had it changed 1, if not 2. The recommended service life is around 100k. Sure they last longer, but since they tend to do bad things to cars when they die: it is advisable to keep up on there service life.

It might be helpful to jack the front of the runner a few inches and try again. Since air rises, you want to make the radiator port the highest part of the cooling system.


If that doesn't do it, you might want to have a professional take a look.

 

[cleex024]

Yea. Halfway is where it should roughly hang out. Each thermostat has a specific temperature it will react with. The 4runners are 190 I believe. How the engine warms up to operating temp is by keeping the theromstat closed, thereby trapping coolant in engine block. Once it hits that temp, the termostat pops open and coolant will now circulate around the block, through the radiator where it sheds excess heat and back again. You have a line that runs from the back of the block, into the car, and then back to the engine. This "hot" coolant is how you get heat.

It is also why you can help cool an overheating car by running the heat full blast. It acts as a second heat dissipation point.

Anyway. A tale tale sign of weak water pump, one that might be on its last legs, will be swings in your engine temp as you drive. All things being in working order, your temp should do as Blackworks suggested: be stable. Once it heats up, the dial shouldn't really move.

If it does, one of the several things it could be is a water pump unable to keep up with demand.

You can also, sometimes, hear an audible whirr or similar noise denoting a broken fin or bad bearings on the pump.
This is hard to do without a stethoscope since the engine muffled it out.

As for the noise. It can be really hard sometimes to get all the air out. The cooling plumbing as bends or curves that can trap the air pocket.


Your engine as a few miles. Can you find out when the last time your pump was replaced? At 240, you should have realistically had it changed 1, if not 2. The recommended service life is around 100k. Sure they last longer, but since they tend to do bad things to cars when they die: it is advisable to keep up on there service life.

It might be helpful to jack the front of the runner a few inches and try again. Since air rises, you want to make the radiator port the highest part of the cooling system.


If that doesn't do it, you might want to have a professional take a look.

thanks and tell you the truth i doubt that it has been replaced since my sister doesnt like to spend money on cars lol...this was her car that i decided to take over since she just bought a brand new 4runner. i should probably just go ahead and replace the water pump then as its probably on its way out.

what controls the needle though? because even when drained the radiator and kept the engine running the temps never went up no matter how long i had the engine running so i feel like the needle is getting stuck at a certain temp.

but then again i hear the water swooshing so i guess the water is definitely circulating and no water is leaking so could the water pump actually be good?

and how hard is it to change out water pumps on this car?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

The V6 is easier than the V8 engine to replace the water pump on.

 

[Gatafly]

Sounds like your thermostat may be sticking slightly open. A lot of times thermostats start acting up shortly after coolant is changed. They are cheap so I have always changed them when I change coolant. Removing them also allows you to flush all the old coolant out very easily. Put a new T stat in and fill back up. Park the vehicle on an incline or front wheels on ramps then let it run with the cap off. Many times there is air that gets stuck and won't come out without the front end up higher.

 

[cleex024]

Sounds like your thermostat may be sticking slightly open. A lot of times thermostats start acting up shortly after coolant is changed. They are cheap so I have always changed them when I change coolant. Removing them also allows you to flush all the old coolant out very easily. Put a new T stat in and fill back up. Park the vehicle on an incline or front wheels on ramps then let it run with the cap off. Many times there is air that gets stuck and won't come out without the front end up higher.

Why does removing the t stat make flushing coolant easier?

 

[Gatafly]

Why does removing the t stat make flushing coolant easier?

You remove it then attach the housing back up. With the engine running you can open the drain petcock of the radiator and let it drain while pouring water into the top. Without the T stat the water pump can pump water through the engine flushing out all the old fluid. With the stat in you would have to fill and close the system then wait for it to come up to temp so the stat will open and move fluid through it. You will have to do this several times to get the old fluid flushed out. Removing is fairly easy and when you are done, let all the water drain out of the radiator before closing the drain. Then put new T stat in and fill system. However much the system holds, fill half with 100% straight Toyota antifreeze then top off with water. Then add a 50/50 mixture to the reserve tank to the cold fluid level and you are set. Check on occasion as the level will drop some when the trapped air is evacuated