Engine Re-Fresh

Well to make things more fun. 4runner threw a CEL just now. P0304, #4 misfire... Gunna swap coil packs around tonight and clear the code, see if it comes back or on another cylinder.

Man it doesn't stop. Was starting to think it might just be a Cat. Was gunna cut it out, check if it was clogged, maybe bang out the honeycomb to eliminate that for the time being... Now I don't know.
 
Ive never rebuilt a car engine, only dirt bikes and motorcycle, so no advice here. My truck needs a new cat, and has for quite some time and I suspect it is restricting the engine and I will see a difference in get-up-and-go after replacing it. I also had an injector go bad three years ago, and that caused all kinds of issues, including a huge loss of power. So maybe just replacing the bad injector will make a big difference for you?

Anyways, I hope you do go through the whole process as you are planning, and take a ton of pictures and document everything along the way. A really in-depth write up wth pictures for a top engine rebuild would be great. I know if I keep my truck I will plan on doing the same thing at some point, and would like to do the work myself. So your experience could be a huge benefit to myself and others seeking to do this in the future!
 
Ok I finally found some time to do some real detective work on this thing.

Compression test with brand new gauge. Got the following numbers:

5 = 145 6 = 150
3 = 140 4 = 135
1 = 153 2 = 148

From what I read on the ol' interwebs which is always accurate, haha, new is closer to 200 with 180 being a great running motor, 145 being the lower limit. I am waiting to hear back from my friend with an FSM to confirm.

So what I take away from this is that maybe I might be on the right path with head rebuild and a new timing belt. I am not too educated on the bleed down test, but would it tell me anything I can't find by taking the heads off?

Also, something weird I noticed. I found "96 4runner" written on the drivers valve cover. This tells me one of two things. Either one; the valve cover was replaced. Or two; this is not the factory engine... I am more inclined to believe the 2nd one. Which mean who knows how many miles may be on this engine...
 
MojaveMadMan said:
Ok I finally found some time to do some real detective work on this thing.

Compression test with brand new gauge. Got the following numbers:

5 = 145 6 = 150
3 = 140 4 = 135
1 = 153 2 = 148

From what I read on the ol' interwebs which is always accurate, haha, new is closer to 200 with 180 being a great running motor, 145 being the lower limit. I am waiting to hear back from my friend with an FSM to confirm.

So what I take away from this is that maybe I might be on the right path with head rebuild and a new timing belt. I am not too educated on the bleed down test, but would it tell me anything I can't find by taking the heads off?

Also, something weird I noticed. I found "96 4runner" written on the drivers valve cover. This tells me one of two things. Either one; the valve cover was replaced. Or two; this is not the factory engine... I am more inclined to believe the 2nd one. Which mean who knows how many miles may be on this engine...
Click to expand...


education can be expensive.....yet rewarding....and always with you for life

I yhink you are about to get educated on how to rebuild a lower end....at least rings and rods
 
I like your thought process and look forward to your findings and results. I've never seen anything like this attempted or at least documented by the 4runner faithful. If it turns out well you could start a trend here.
 
135 seems low. Did you take multiple measurements? A couple people have talked about how getting the PSI measurement accurate isn't as obvious as it would seem.

education can be expensive.....yet rewarding....and always with you for life
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm not referring to the skill level of anyone in this thread but it is worth mentioning the obvious which is rebuilding an engine is a serious task much more so than just putting on new heads.

My cousin spent months rebuilding his Honda and it drove for about 1 min down the block before throwing a rod out the hood. He's not a mechanic but not an idiot either. He tried to follow the procedures but he told me his downfall was likely that he didn't have the proper precision instruments (eg an expensive accurate and calibrated Micrometer) needed for that type of work.
 
Thanks everyone so far!!!

I'm kind of at a loss for what to do next. Should I do a bleed down? Will this answer questions about the rings? When I tested I would do 6 cycles of the engine. The guidance says 5 but I played around, did multiple tests on a few cyclinders. Some would stop increasing at 5, others at 6 or 7. These are the highest numbers I could get from each cylinder. My only other thought on the compression test is that this is a $40 gauge, not some fancy one you would see an engine builder use... Also, not sure if it means anything, but I let each result sit for 3-5 min before recording, to make sure it didn't leak over time. No idea if this says anything.

So I know a few mentioned bottom ends. I am just not at the point of confidence to do it. If this was a project motor on a stand that I could work on over the next few months and buy all the fancy tools. Then us I would give it a shot. But it's not, so I don't want to mess it up. My other concern is honestly cost... I really don't have the money right now to ha e a full rebuild done. A few of you guys mention bottom ends, what specifically here is telling you that? From my understanding low compression can easily be old heads too.

My thought kind of remains the same, heads and timing belt being the big mechanical things. Then some other maintenance I need. Then drive it and do another compression test. If it was all for nothing because I didn't do rings... Then I'll be pissed but at least heads and timing belt are done haha. Then I can park it and start saving to get the bottom half done. Or if I open it up and the bottom has obvious signs of issues, same thing...

This is a tuff one because I have already dumped over $10K into this truck from start to finish. If you read through my build thread I was kind of attempting to get to a stopping point with the bigger purchases. But now it looks like another $1000 to $3000 will be heading this way... When is enough enough?
 
MojaveMadMan said:
Should be about it. From there I think I will have a nice refreshed engine that will last another 150K miles (timing belt at 100K obviously). Between the oil burning, lower MPG's and lower power compared to my fiends I think this will get me there. I did have 2 different friends drive mine and his and they all agreed mine was substantially slower... So ya, that's the plan. Everyone still think I'm crazy?
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I would think this definitely indicates worn rings. Time for a full rebuild.
 
BrianSD_42 said:
or a full engine swap .... right?
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Spoke to two machine shops today. Showed them compression numbers, talked miles and such. One said I should do the Safe than sorry approach and rebuild the whole thing. The other said I should do a wet or leak down test and that will tell me if it's rings or heads.

Price for long block rebuild, $2000.

I called around a few engine suppliers here in town. Nothing with less than 160K on it and they were around $1000 to buy. Anyone know any good places to get an engine in the NM region? How about in CA, I will be in LA for a couple days in July and then be driving back to NM... I f I did a swap it would need to be a 100K or less motor, which is probably hard to find these days...

I am at a stop on this one. No matter which way I go I will break my budget so I made a hard choice today. Sell the 4runner, part it out, or sell some parts and fix the engine. So I decided I had too much money and time into this thing to let it go. So my compromise is going to be to sell my front and rear plate bumpers and then I will have the money for a rebuild or a swap. Anyone want some bumpers?
 
$2,000 for a complete "long block rebuild" seems very low to me.

I was thinking (and others have paid) $4,000 to $4,500.

What will the shop be doing for the $2000 ?

What kind of a warranty?

Here is an idea:

1) just drive it until you find a replacement motor
2) swap the heads with refurbed heads ($300 each)
3) as mentioned do more tests
 
I have driven a few other 4runners and tacomas lately being a mechanic i drive a lot of cars, My 4runner seems pretty low on power as well compared to the others. All had under 170k miles one has 96k mine has 262k mikes but was well maintained. Still runs great gets good mpg and does not burn oil.
 
JBurt said:
That's a though choice man. At least you can build new bumpers later.

You can redo the compression test but ad a teaspoon or two of oil, If it goes up dramatically then it's your rings.

A leak down test is a good idea also. Have you checked jdm engines on eBay?


Some good stuff in here 5vzfe JDM motor full of water - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
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I will have to do more research on this one. From what I have read there seems to be a lot of horror stories happening lately with these engines because of the tsunami years back. Also in the water logged JDM thread one person made a good point I thought was valid: that they don't treat motors with as much care as we do because they have to swap motors out and they don't value their cars like we do. I think I would rather buy something out of someone wrecked beloved 4runner/tacoma. That said I am not out on this one and will do some more research.

BrianSD_42 said:
$2,000 for a complete "long block rebuild" seems very low to me.

I was thinking (and others have paid) $4,000 to $4,500.

What will the shop be doing for the $2000 ?

What kind of a warranty?

Here is an idea:

1) just drive it until you find a replacement motor
2) swap the heads with refurbed heads ($300 each)
3) as mentioned do more tests
Click to expand...

$2000 was for a full rebuild as long as my block and heads aren't damaged. Pistons, rods, crank grind, some other stuff I am not smart on. Then head rebuild, valve grind, new seals and springs, etc. Also includes a timing belt but not a water pump so I would obviously add that on as well. I also just got a recommendation for a guy here in town who does all Toyota stuff and the guy who told me about it said he was quoted $2500 for the rebuild on his...

As you mentioned above, when I said I could have the heads rebuilt for $360 and it seemed like everyone thought that was not going to be enough? Am I missing something?

My plan going forward right now, is to be patient. My wife and I are moving into a home we are in the process of purchasing over the 4th of July weekend. Then I have a bike ride across Iowa mid July. So as of right now I am just going to park the 4runner, and do some more reading. I am going to sell my bumpers to build up my budget, then when we get all settled in our house and back in town I will pull the engine and decide what to do from there. As suggested, prior to removal, I will drop it off somewhere and just pay a pro to do a full leak down test. And then use that information to move forward.
 
so he took it apart and abandoned the project. Not to be Mr. negative but that sounds pretty stetchy.

Even if it was running the engine wouldn't be worth much more than $1500.

He's asking $1200, it is in pieces and has no warranty.
 
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