delloro
New member
It would in this case. 20 might be a bit much, but 6 speeds would be a welcome improvement for me.
Engine /Transmission woefully outdated!
- Thread starter Redsoxx1918
- Start date
It would in this case. 20 might be a bit much, but 6 speeds would be a welcome improvement for me.
I will never buy an ecoboost style engine. It's a way to get apparent good fuel economy, nothing more. I haven't found a situation yet where my "antiquated" 2010 TE's engine wasn't up to the task.
Jernik
New member
I guess my question is why does every car in the market have to be the latest and most advanced vehicle ever? Is there not room in the market for less technological vehicles? Apparently there is, and 4R and Wrangler are 2 that fit that bill. Coincidentally, both have a large, rabid following and make their respective companies piles of cash. A failure? Worthy of ridicule? Hardly.
Look, 4R and Wrangler are niche vehicles, and that's part of their appeal. Truth be told, if tech, perfect ride, plush accomodations are what you desire, the 4R and Wrangler are not for you. Go look for a modern unibody vehicle that provides buttery smooth ride, great fuel economy, tons of tech, fancy interior materials with a plethora of entertainment gadgets included - there are many - MANY - out there to choose from.
No, I like the 4R and Wrangler as they are. You can leave these 2 models (of the hundreds available) alone for those of us who like and prefer what they are. I admit, I'm an odd bird and what I like generally is not what the general public clamors for. I find the "imperfections" in both of these vehicles to be the very things that give them character and make them interesting to drive. Bouncing down the road or trail in either brings more joy than any other vehicle I've ever owned. If it's a nice, sunny day and I can have sunroof+all windows down or top/doors off, well that's about as close to heaven as man can get.
These vehicles are not built to be efficient. Or plush. Or fast. No. These vehicles are built to move the soul. And in that regard they do a damn good job. :cheers:
Look, 4R and Wrangler are niche vehicles, and that's part of their appeal. Truth be told, if tech, perfect ride, plush accomodations are what you desire, the 4R and Wrangler are not for you. Go look for a modern unibody vehicle that provides buttery smooth ride, great fuel economy, tons of tech, fancy interior materials with a plethora of entertainment gadgets included - there are many - MANY - out there to choose from.
No, I like the 4R and Wrangler as they are. You can leave these 2 models (of the hundreds available) alone for those of us who like and prefer what they are. I admit, I'm an odd bird and what I like generally is not what the general public clamors for. I find the "imperfections" in both of these vehicles to be the very things that give them character and make them interesting to drive. Bouncing down the road or trail in either brings more joy than any other vehicle I've ever owned. If it's a nice, sunny day and I can have sunroof+all windows down or top/doors off, well that's about as close to heaven as man can get.
These vehicles are not built to be efficient. Or plush. Or fast. No. These vehicles are built to move the soul. And in that regard they do a damn good job. :cheers:
T4R2014
Elite Member
Probably more maintenance. It’s still more complex. I hope none of you are begging for small turbodiesels with that logic. The 5 speed is still pathetic AF.
wfo9
New member
The wrangler is improving rapidly. The JL is very impressive and seems to be moving in a great direction answering many owners asks (they listen to the customers and have engineers and product managers with passion). Toyota on the other hand... crickets and disappointment going on 10+ years now with basically nothing better and no indication they care what the customer thinks. The 5th gen 150 is decent.. but really just a restyle of the 4th 120 with minor improvements. Toyota has been riding the coat tails of their past (20 year old platform) way too long. The future looks very dim for them in the truck SUV market. I could be wrong... I hope so.
Chevy, Ford, and Dodge all have great off-road stuff now, each in their own niche. The zr2, The JL, The raptor..... I think Toyota i is just milking what is left and plans to bow out.
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TacoRunn0517
New member
Turbos have never appealed to me. And you are right. But the 5AT works for me haha. I hope Toyota upgrades the transmission for those of you out there that can't stand it.
Horsethief
New member
They're also good for torque. I have a '07 Volvo with a 2.5L five cylinder with a small, low pressure turbo. It doesn't make huge HP, only 208, however it makes 236 LB FT at 1,900 rpm. This engine is a torquey little sum'***** and is great on the highway and in the mountains. I can maintain pretty much any grade without it kicking down out of top gear, and it has great passing power too.
And it's old tech, they've Just discontinued this engine unfortunately, but they've made it for YEARS.
They're also anvil reliable, I have 202k miles on mine with no engine issues. I have no worries about the turbo, from what I've seen on the Volvo boards that's one of the rarest problems.
IMO, if Toyota focused less on peak HP numbers and more on low end power, they'd be much better to drive.
I drove a '17 Taco and thought the parking brake was on. I didn't realize you need to drive it at with a heavy foot. "But it has 278hp!" Yeah, at 6,000 rpm. BFD. Torque peak is like 4,600rpm, IIRC. Ideally that should be about 2k rpm lower.
Jernik
New member
Jeep just updated their Wrangler to be safer, better features, better engine and drive train, and way more comfy on the inside.
I know, and I and every other Jeep purist HATE it! lol
Jeep has been wise to slowly evolve the Wrangler. The JK was a 10 year run. The TJ and YJ before it were each 9 year runs IIRC. There is a fine line with niche vehicles and who/where they compete. They can't afford to alienate the purists in the event the "flavor of the month" crowd sees something shinier next door and jumps on a new fad.
Back to the 4R. If they make it unibody and put in high tech engines/transmissions to improve the ride and economy, and stuff it full of electronic gadgetry... what will make it any different than a Kia Sorento (or your pick of a few dozen mid size utes already on the market)? Is that what people want? A ______ with a Toyota badge on the grill? They already have that... it's called a Highlander.
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BullRNR
New member
Toyota doesn't need to touch the platform when they're printing money with it! Love or hate the engine, people keep buying it (myself included). Annual sales have increased 2011-2016 and have doubled from 2012 (48,755) to 2015 (97,034). I would bet capex is long paid back and knowing Toyota, their operations are highly optimized by now. It's really one of the few niche vehicles out there that really can hold its own in sales. From a regulation standpoint, the weighted average of brand MPG/sales will also free them up to keep a truck like this around with the volumes of Corollas, Camrys, etc...
Now with that said, I am sure something is in the works... Toyota isn't going to hand over this little corner of the market for free.
Now with that said, I am sure something is in the works... Toyota isn't going to hand over this little corner of the market for free.
I have almost 15k miles on mine after coming from a 2016 RRS with a 3.5L Supercharged V6 + 8AT.
The issue with the 4.0L V6 isn't the power, but rather the accessibility of it. I have to mash the pedal to get it moving, which I think is what people are perceiving as "underpowered." In the RRS, you could get moving with half pedal push and to really get moving you mashed the pedal down
The 5AT transmission seemingly only needs to be a 6AT. I find it does a great job of selecting the right gear especially on the freeway. It doesn't hunt around when I'm using cruise control and I really have no complaints at all with it.
The issue with the 4.0L V6 isn't the power, but rather the accessibility of it. I have to mash the pedal to get it moving, which I think is what people are perceiving as "underpowered." In the RRS, you could get moving with half pedal push and to really get moving you mashed the pedal down
The 5AT transmission seemingly only needs to be a 6AT. I find it does a great job of selecting the right gear especially on the freeway. It doesn't hunt around when I'm using cruise control and I really have no complaints at all with it.
Hadelson
New member
I guess I will show my age here. To me, this thread is similar to when the Army fielded the M1 Tank in 1980. Loaded up with modern technology of the era and a new fangled 1500HP Turbine. Nay Sayers said the engine would not hold up.....history proved them wrong. Just ask our enemies who survived encounters with this tank.
Now 38 years later, our potential enemies are fielding tanks that are close and in some cases better in one area or the other-but not the entire package.
The US Armed forces are currently working on next level Modification of this tank. While heavy and a fuel guzzler, can't wait to see next leap forward.
The 4 Runner reminds me of the M1 old in design - but solid as a rock.
Now 38 years later, our potential enemies are fielding tanks that are close and in some cases better in one area or the other-but not the entire package.
The US Armed forces are currently working on next level Modification of this tank. While heavy and a fuel guzzler, can't wait to see next leap forward.
The 4 Runner reminds me of the M1 old in design - but solid as a rock.
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TacoRunn0517
New member
You're coming from a SPORT Utility Vehicle to a Sport UTILITY Vehicle. The 4Runner's engine can be an issue for those hauling/towing significant weight. That's not the majority of customers buying this vehicle. If you want a vehicle that can scoot, look elsewhere.
delloro
New member
Ecoboost!
kenwilliams0803
New member
Said it before and I will say it again. I have owned more than one sub 5 second car. It's not quick like that but it's more than enough IF you are willing to sacrifice the gas mileage by putting the hammer down. The 4 runner comes in at like 7.2 sec last I looked. I work in the auto industry, and I had to mash it in a merge situation once. My boss had only been in the car 10 min., his first ride with me. And he was like "oh v8 in this too huh? Nice!"
It moves when you need it to. Most of the time I drive like a grandpa and get 20+ mpg out of it instead though.
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It moves when you need it to. Most of the time I drive like a grandpa and get 20+ mpg out of it instead though.
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