Engine /Transmission woefully outdated!

Jetboy said:
In all seriousness - go drive one. I'm not a fan of the interior - no power seats even in a limited?!?! (no height adjustment at all). But the engine/trans combo is great. I put 1,000 miles in one with 34" tires and stock gearing. I would have no problem owning one. It was quieter, smoother, and handled hilly terrain as well or better than my 4runner does. Yeah - it downshifts out of 6th fairly often, but the downshift isn't a 1500rpm jump and the engine is so much better balanced that you don't feel like you're flogging it just to maintain speed. You don't really feel it at all - just watch the tach.
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Hate to disagree but the new tacoma engine and transmission combo is horrible. I had the truck for 2 years and I got rid of it. The constant shifting of gears , horrible cruise control, bad sitting position and not great MPG, leaking differential, missing gears from Drive to Reverse and so on. Maybe you drove the truck for a little while but after owning the truck I can actually say that Toyota messed up big time with this engine and tranny combo
 
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plasticsnaks said:
I owned a 2016 3rd gen A/T Tacoma for a year. IMHO, close to the worst performing engine/transmission combo I’ve ever owned! Gas mileage was no better than my 2nd gen Tacoma and actually worse on the highway bucking any wind. Transmission/throttle mapping and gear ratios were horrible! There’s a valid reason why you see so many used 3rd gens for sale and see so many negative reviews regarding the drivetrain.
I owned my 2nd gen Tacoma (1gr) A/T for 9 years...awesome engine/trans combo!.... Im very happy with my 5th gen 4runner as well. I’ll take the old technology 1gr 5sp AT over the “new” Atkinson 6sp auto any day.

IMO,Toyota would be making a huge mistake using the 2gr “Atkinson A/T” combo in the 4runner....
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Totally agree. The Tacoma engine is a joke compared to the 1-GR and not counting all the problems i had with the truck/ I am glad i got rid of it
 
Dear Toyota.....are you hearing this? Do it right when you mess with the Runner or DON'T touch it at all. The half measures in the Tacoma will see you paying for it in sales to the Domestics until you fix it right. Toyota man since my '78 SR-5 PU.....listen to the TOYOTA customers.:lever:
 
cgalloni said:
Hate to disagree but the new tacoma engine and transmission combo is horrible. I had the truck for 2 years and I got rid of it. The constant shifting of gears , horrible cruise control, bad sitting position and not great MPG, leaking differential, missing gears from Drive to Reverse and so on. Maybe you drove the truck for a little while but after owning the truck I can actually say that Toyota messed up big time with this engine and tranny combo
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I believe it may have been re-programmed since you had yours. Not sure. I didn't notice any issues with gear hunting. It might even be something that having extra load keeps the transmission in the lower gear and having a full load and larger tires actually makes it perform better? The truck I was in was a double cab long bed with about 1,000lbs of gear for 3 people for a week plus offroad equipment. And 34 10.5 17 tires.

Either way the transmission is great in other vehicles too. I've had the same transmission in our IS and our RX along with the same engine. IMO it's a very advanced engine. It's the best direct injection engine design on the market.

The problem - as I see it - is that it's a variable effective displacement engine that's just a bit too small for the Tacoma/4runner. It's very similar in performance to a 2.0L 4cyl turbo - but much more reliable, durable, and - if sized properly - it should be more fuel efficient too. The atkinson cycle allows it to effectively run at around 2 liters of effective displacement. And rather than using boost to run up to 1.5 or 1.8 volumetric efficiency through a compressed intake, it relies on the valves to do the work of adjusting the air volume up.
The benefit is that it should have a lot longer service life than a turbo. Bearings that spin 100k rpms are really hard to make last for a lot of miles. Ford actually published it's design life for the ecoboost - and it's only 175k miles. That's not something Toyota would likely ever accept outside of maybe it's Halo sports cars. But the two companies have very different demographics of buyers. Tundra owners keep them longer than any other truck - including the Tacoma, which is #2.

And it should also be more fuel efficient. You can't run turbos lean without dramatically shortening engine life. The problem IMO is that it's simply too small of an engine for the task, so you're running it high in the output range almost all the time on the highway, and then its fuel savings evaporate. If it were more like a 4.5L v8 - I'd bet you'd get 2-3mpg bump in actual use.

What I'd love to see is a mild hybrid like FCA just announced. It's a brilliant system if it's done well. IIRC it will apply to all gas engines in the Wrangler and Ram trucks. They use a alternator/generator/motor that will add up to 150 ft lbs or torque from 0-1500rpms. Not only would that really assist in towing and racing - I don't race, but I do tow some - but it would also be really useful at certain times offroad. Especially if you had engineers who were serious about exploring its capabilities. For example: water crossings. Imagine for a second if you could flip a switch that shuttered the intake, opened the valves to spin freely, and then used electric drive for even as short as 500-1000 feet. Water crossings would be a breeze, no snorkel needed, no engine stalls, just easy low stress water crossings. Similarly you could also use the generator to power a lot of camping gear. No more need for dual batteries and solar panels. You've got a high output generator already built in. And a simple circuit with start/stop and battery monitoring would keep you charged all the time. - don't get me wrong here. There was a JKU stuck on the Rubicon last year with an ECU failure during the jeep jamboree and an entire team of FCA engineers couldn't make it run - at all. No limp by mode. No reset without being in a shop with live internet (can't do it in the field apparently even with FCA's team and resources - including things like a helicopter) because swapping ECUs won't work either. So I understand the fear of tech not working. But the concept CAN be done very well and very reliably with the right engineering team behind it and the right resources applied to manufacturing it properly.
 
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Jetboy said:
I believe it may have been re-programmed since you had yours. Not sure. I didn't notice any issues with gear hunting. It might even be something that having extra load keeps the transmission in the lower gear and having a full load and larger tires actually makes it perform better? The truck I was in was a double cab long bed with about 1,000lbs of gear for 3 people for a week plus offroad equipment. And 34 10.5 17 tires.

Either way the transmission is great in other vehicles too. I've had the same transmission in our IS and our RX along with the same engine. IMO it's a very advanced engine. It's the best direct injection engine design on the market.

The problem - as I see it - is that it's a variable effective displacement engine that's just a bit too small for the Tacoma/4runner. It's very similar in performance to a 2.0L 4cyl turbo - but much more reliable, durable, and - if sized properly - it should be more fuel efficient too. The atkinson cycle allows it to effectively run at around 2 liters of effective displacement. And rather than using boost to run up to 1.5 or 1.8 volumetric efficiency through a compressed intake, it relies on the valves to do the work of adjusting the air volume up.
The benefit is that it should have a lot longer service life than a turbo. Bearings that spin 100k rpms are really hard to make last for a lot of miles. Ford actually published it's design life for the ecoboost - and it's only 175k miles. That's not something Toyota would likely ever accept outside of maybe it's Halo sports cars. But the two companies have very different demographics of buyers. Tundra owners keep them longer than any other truck - including the Tacoma, which is #2.

And it should also be more fuel efficient. You can't run turbos lean without dramatically shortening engine life. The problem IMO is that it's simply too small of an engine for the task, so you're running it high in the output range almost all the time on the highway, and then its fuel savings evaporate. If it were more like a 4.5L v8 - I'd bet you'd get 2-3mpg bump in actual use.

What I'd love to see is a mild hybrid like FCA just announced. It's a brilliant system if it's done well. IIRC it will apply to all gas engines in the Wrangler and Ram trucks. They use a alternator/generator/motor that will add up to 150 ft lbs or torque from 0-1500rpms. Not only would that really assist in towing and racing - I don't race, but I do tow some - but it would also be really useful at certain times offroad. Especially if you had engineers who were serious about exploring its capabilities. For example: water crossings. Imagine for a second if you could flip a switch that shuttered the intake, opened the valves to spin freely, and then used electric drive for even as short as 500-1000 feet. Water crossings would be a breeze, no snorkel needed, no engine stalls, just easy low stress water crossings. Similarly you could also use the generator to power a lot of camping gear. No more need for dual batteries and solar panels. You've got a high output generator already built in. And a simple circuit with start/stop and battery monitoring would keep you charged all the time. - don't get me wrong here. There was a JKU stuck on the Rubicon last year with an ECU failure during the jeep jamboree and an entire team of FCA engineers couldn't make it run - at all. No limp by mode. No reset without being in a shop with live internet (can't do it in the field apparently even with FCA's team and resources - including things like a helicopter) because swapping ECUs won't work either. So I understand the fear of tech not working. But the concept CAN be done very well and very reliably with the right engineering team behind it and the right resources applied to manufacturing it properly.
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I drove the 2018 before purchasing the 4runner and believe me it has the same issues as my 2016. I did both TSB on the transmission and even though it got a little better it was still hunting gears like crazy. I felt the truck was under powered in the low rpms and that you have to push the gas to pass another vehicle. I think the engine is not that bad but the tranny just plain sucks. A truck that is going 40 mph and is already in 6th gear is not ideal. If you want go to the tacoma forum and you will see the amount of people selling the truck and trading for even the Ridgeline. Just my .02 cents
 
My 2016 TEP is just right for what I bought it for - driving on the beach in deep sand and pulling a heavy 16-foot boat and trailer out of ponds and lakes that don't have ramps. It's geared just right. I don't want any more wheel spin than I've got already and I like the KDSS enough to definitely get it again.

And it will cruise at 70 to 80 all day in traffic on I-95.

I'm satisfied. Well, the sound system did suck some.



"and that you have to push the gas to pass another vehicle."

Do tell. Every vehicle I've driven since I started driving in 1965 worked that way. The other pedal is the brake - it stops you. ;)
 
johnbt said:
My 2016 TEP is just right for what I bought it for - driving on the beach in deep sand and pulling a heavy 16-foot boat and trailer out of ponds and lakes that don't have ramps. It's geared just right. I don't want any more wheel spin than I've got already and I like the KDSS enough to definitely get it again.

And it will cruise at 70 to 80 all day in traffic on I-95.

I'm satisfied. Well, the sound system did suck some.



"and that you have to push the gas to pass another vehicle."

Do tell. Every vehicle I've driven since I started driving in 1965 worked that way. The other pedal is the brake - it stops you. ;)
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"and that you have to push the gas to pass another vehicle."

Do tell. Every vehicle I've driven since I started driving in 1965 worked that way. The other pedal is the brake - it stops you. ;)[/QUOTE]


40mph in 6th gear. You have to push the pedal all the way down to get it moving , due to lack of low end torque!
 
All of the complaints I see could be remedied if we had EFILive support. Trans tuning can make a world of difference. Unfortunately I dont see it happening, nowhere near the customer base for legit custom tuning.
 
philsey said:
This is exactly what prompted me to buy a 2018. Seeing what Toyota did to the Taco, concerned me re the 6th Gen, and prompted me to look. In reality, I probably should have just kept it but I got a great deal.



This need for new technology amuses me. My 2010 was bulletproof for 8 years, I really liked it. What suited me fine then, suits me now. Just because Ford, or GM, or XX has a turbo or a 10 speed or whatever, changes my opinion not at all. It ain't broke. What someone else does, does not change that nor does it degrade my opinion. There will always be something different, better is subjective.
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So you’re saying that Toyota should just leave most of their vehicles alone and never advance with technology? Is the 5th gen the best or should they have stopped generations ago? And you’re also saying that you have no confidence that Toyota can produce a modern drivetrain that can produce better power and fuel mileage. Hmm.. interesting opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
"So you’re saying that Toyota should just leave most of their vehicles alone and never advance with technology?"

Just the 4Runner. If I'd wanted another Highlander or Avalon I would have bought one. Or a Forester Limited with limited slip rear diff, big wheels and disc brakes all the way around like my '01. Zippy, not not fast like an '06 Avalon (6.2 0-60) My '10 Highlander towed my boat just fine, but it was really just a heavy AWD V6 Camry with 19" wheels.

I admit I enjoy driving my girlfriend's '16 Avalon Touring every once in a while. That's why I bought it and didn't get her what she said she wanted - just another 4-cylinder Camry with a radio. :)
 
The new transmissions will offer a lot of real reliability benefits. First - the direct shift transmissions can lock up the torque converter in every gear or nearly every gear. It uses a lot less of the torque converter - meaning both better efficiency and way less heat generation internally. And that means cooler operation at lower speeds in lower gears. That's a big plus for reliability. It also uses a single rotating axis (single shaft) which also increases durability over other designs.

And the gear range is fantastic based on early models. Imagine having a 5.5:1 first gear! That's nearly identical to having dual 2.28 cases in a 3rd gen. Crawl ratio would be 55:1 with 3.73 diffs. Currently we're at 35:1.
 
The question is not necessarily to update or not to update but how big will the update leap be. I think most of us would expect that they will drop at least a 6AT in for the next generation, the power plant on the other hand? who knows.

I can say, that I don't necessarily like the mouse trap where the tasty knock sensor is ;): :D Who wants to pull the upper and lower intake manifold and all the hell associated with it to replace a $150 part.

The LandCuiser, is it still really a LandCruiser? It is certainly no longer the LandBruiser that it once was but more of a LandYatch. Just sayin :)
 
As long as they don't put the Tacoma tranny/engine combo in the next gen. Seems to be a dog on the search. But then I'm not a fan of needing to jam it to the floor all the time. My 4runner gets up and goes quite nicely with little effort.
 
Not defending it. Improvements can be good. Just don't want them to make it worse like they did to the poor Tacoma. that used to be a good engine. If they put it there I'd rather stay put.
How about a 6 speed auto with a V8? Now we're talking.
 
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