Engine woes and the all-too-obvious fix

fullboogie

New member
OK, I'm falling on the sword here because everyone who reads this is going to think "Well, yeah, dumbass - that's the first thing I'd have checked." But I'm making this thread to help future owners who, like me, can fall victim to over thinking a problem.

Symptoms - it began with an intermittent idle issue, with the idle dropping down to 500 rpm and running a tad rough, then coming back up to 650 rpm. Then it developed into an off-idle hesitation. As soon as I pressed the gas pedal, it would hesitate or stumble momentarily, then take off normal. As it got worse, the truck would barely get out of its own way, could barely get to 40 mph under WOT, and the tranny would hunt for a gear. Gas mileage fell off the cliff too. It really had become undriveable.

Torque app showed no codes, which really stumped me. I cleaned the MAF and the throttle body, and checked for vacuum leaks with starting fluid. I ignored spark plugs because I'd put new Bosch platinum plugs in right before Christmas, so they had maybe 4,000 miles on them. And for my frame of reference, I run 17 lbs of boost in my GT500, drive it to work several times a week, and beat the snot out of it at the track, and my el cheapo NGK TR6's will last forever. So it can't be the new plugs I put in the truck, right?

Anyway, long story short, I'm getting desperate because I have a long trip coming up with towing, and I need it fixed immediately. Out of desperation I threw in a new set of Champion platinum plugs and magically, it runs like a champ. The old plugs looked fine. No cracked porcelain, the electrodes looked great - they looked new. I can't explain or understand how or why a set of plugs can go "bad" so quickly, or why these engines are so damn finicky with the type of plug that's in there.

In any event, this is a reminder to check the simple stuff first regardless of what you think you know. It could save you a lot of frustration.
 
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I don't know about the later motors, but the 22RE and 3VZE hate anything that isn't Denso or NGK. If I'd seen Bosch plugs in your block that's the first thing I'd have changed.
 
Someone educate me, because I am really curious - how can a spark plug be a "bad" spark plug. Too much resistance for the coils? I mean, it's nothing but a conductor, so if it isn't broken then it has to work (barring any obvious issues like oil fouling, etc.).
 
Someone educate me, because I am really curious - how can a spark plug be a "bad" spark plug. Too much resistance for the coils? I mean, it's nothing but a conductor, so if it isn't broken then it has to work (barring any obvious issues like oil fouling, etc.).

Most of the plugs at autozone, walmart, etc., are crap. They cause problems in many vehicles.
 
OP.. Listen.. Bosch is German; BMW, BENZ, VW, AUDI..

NGK = All JAPanese vehicles.

Champion, AC Delco PLugs= GM

Autolite/Motorcraft = FORD

THere is no ryme or reason. Just change out what oem recommendations.

If you line up some of the plugs vs OEM recommendation I bet you they are slightly shorter and longer threaded. Crush washers maybe made of different material and different torque numbers.

This may cause an issue all across the board.

IMO get rid of the champions and get NGK or denso. You dont want to chase the same intermittent issues down the road.


BTW dont bother getting those plus 4 prongs and e3 plugs etc.. its all marketing crap.
 
Lesson learned - and I've found that Rock Auto absolutely has the cheapest prices on all spark plugs. Densos are going in as soon as I can get a set to my door.


OP.. Listen.. Bosch is German; BMW, BENZ, VW, AUDI..

NGK = All JAPanese vehicles.

Champion, AC Delco PLugs= GM

Autolite/Motorcraft = FORD

THere is no ryme or reason. Just change out what oem recommendations.

If you line up some of the plugs vs OEM recommendation I bet you they are slightly shorter and longer threaded. Crush washers maybe made of different material and different torque numbers.

This may cause an issue all across the board.

IMO get rid of the champions and get NGK or denso. You dont want to chase the same intermittent issues down the road.


BTW dont bother getting those plus 4 prongs and e3 plugs etc.. its all marketing crap.
 
Another lesson I learned, I got a 2001 BMW 325i, the PO put the E3 spark plugs in about 20,000 miles before selling it to me... well, those plugs were the first thing I checked to see, and they were black and terrible looking. Went to Advance Auto and got some NGK iridium's, and forever since been running smooth, unlike before.
 
Yeah I don't know what it is... but Toyotas are very racist, they hate anything other than Denso/NGK much in the way the German cars do best with Bosch, ect.

I have no idea why it works that way... but it does...
 
Makes no sense to me at all. But I will listen to the Nippon gods and install the correct plugs. It is still amazing that the "wrong" set of plugs can cause so many problems. Hell, I've run my GT500 on plugs where 3 of them have half the ground strap burned off, and the car runs great. These Toyotas are finicky little mistresses...
 
^^^ Maybe on the later vehicles Germans use ngk. My Audi back then used bosch. My x5 I sold used NGK also. IMO just use what works and what came in the vehicle. People have the misconception that spark plugs will produce more power and MPG. Unless your engine is heavily modified dont waste your money.
 
I had two Land Rovers previously. The older Land Rover I had recommended Bosch and the second newest Land Rover I previously had as well recommended NGK.

Btw as posted in the thread I started I changed the Bosch plugs out and went back to NGK's. Instead of going with the NGK Iridiums I went with one of the factory specified NGK 7787's. Previously when I had the NGK Iridiums in they may have worked and it was possibly just the ignition coil I replaced. So we will see if the NGK 7787's fix my issues - crossing fingers they do. Like I stated in the other post I started that I have always read and heard to never use Bosch plugs in a Toyota engine. It's funny something like this that can be made so similar can do something so drastic but as with anything it's possible.
 
OK, I'm falling on the sword here because everyone who reads this is going to think "Well, yeah, dumbass - that's the first thing I'd have checked." But I'm making this thread to help future owners who, like me, can fall victim to over thinking a problem.

Symptoms - it began with an intermittent idle issue, with the idle dropping down to 500 rpm and running a tad rough, then coming back up to 650 rpm. Then it developed into an off-idle hesitation. As soon as I pressed the gas pedal, it would hesitate or stumble momentarily, then take off normal. As it got worse, the truck would barely get out of its own way, could barely get to 40 mph under WOT, and the tranny would hunt for a gear. Gas mileage fell off the cliff too. It really had become undriveable.

Torque app showed no codes, which really stumped me. I cleaned the MAF and the throttle body, and checked for vacuum leaks with starting fluid. I ignored spark plugs because I'd put new Bosch platinum plugs in right before Christmas, so they had maybe 4,000 miles on them. And for my frame of reference, I run 17 lbs of boost in my GT500, drive it to work several times a week, and beat the snot out of it at the track, and my el cheapo NGK TR6's will last forever. So it can't be the new plugs I put in the truck, right?

Anyway, long story short, I'm getting desperate because I have a long trip coming up with towing, and I need it fixed immediately. Out of desperation I threw in a new set of Champion platinum plugs and magically, it runs like a champ. The old plugs looked fine. No cracked porcelain, the electrodes looked great - they looked new. I can't explain or understand how or why a set of plugs can go "bad" so quickly, or why these engines are so damn finicky with the type of plug that's in there.

In any event, this is a reminder to check the simple stuff first regardless of what you think you know. It could save you a lot of frustration.

(For giggle :naughty:) Bosch is German, NGK/Denso is Japanese. If one speaks German and the other can only understand Japanese, how would you expect them to work together?

My understanding. I've learned a similar lesson with the oxygen sensor on my other Japanese car. The Bosch was chosen over the OEM Denso part because it was 50% cheaper. While the Bosch part fitted nicely with the thread, the ECU intermittently threw out error codes. Ended up having to spend more $ to get the Denso one and the issue disappeared right away. Since then, I have a belief that there are certain parts in the car better go with OEM.
 
a follow up...

I'm wondering if I'm seeing something similar?
My 98 4runner, 3.4 v6 SR5 began to run a little rough on the way home from a longer road trip. It has 190,000 on it, with original wires and plugs, which up to this point were running fine, getting 20 +/- mpg. I plugged in a analyzer and the code said cylinder #5 was missing. My mechanic put on new wires and plugs, drove it for a bit but missing came back. Then checked the coils and those seem ok. He did put in OEM grade plugs, I believe they were either
Denso's or NGKs. Would either of those be OK for a 98' ? or is there a specific recommendation?

thanks for your time,

Henning
(first post!)
 
NGK = two stroke dirt bike plugs

and if you know about two strong dirt bikes they require constant fondling of the plug, cleaning replacing etc....

Thus NGK burned in my head !
 
FullBoogie: Very curious if it all went away and was fine?

No, I've experienced it again, and I don't think it's been the plugs. I have a likely culprit, but not sure of the cause. Don't want to post anything about my suspicion until I have more info.
 
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NGK's or Densos for the 1998 3.4 6 cylinder engine? Does it matter?

So, after re-reading the thread again tonight, a question still persists..

Obviously the bosch / etc. non japanese plugs are out..

but .. any opinions on Denso's vs. NGK's? are they "essentially" the same? is there
a way I can find out which ones are desired? experiences out there?

btw.. my post up above.. on my #5 cylinder issue.. anyone with thoughts?

my mechanic has began to move farther back in the chain, checking the connection from the wire all the way back to the ECU (computer timing problem?).. which seems to be very rare.


thanks so much!
Henning
 
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