Extended brake lines. Yes or no?

K

Kuzmovka

New member
Ok guys first off I want to apologize for my first post on this forum being a question I'm sure has been answered. I'm going to be THAT guy.

I have been a forum stalker on here for a while, to get a feel as I shopped for my truck. Well I got an 85 about a month back and it needs a suspension desperately. I've elected to go with the procomp 4" all spring set up, because it's easy and will work for me at this point.

My question is will I need longer brake lines lifting it 4 inches? Nothing I've read has indicated yes or no so far. Help me out!

Also worth mentioning that I'm doing all this on the cheap, like under a grand for the springs an axle rebuild for the front and new brake pads. Any cheaper parts would help.

Thanks in advance!
 
Register to hide this ad
Issues you're going to run into with a 4" lift (you may already know some of this):

1) Brake lines. The stock lines will reach while the truck is sitting in your driveway, but not when you're articulated. If you're on the cheap, you could cut the mounts on the back of your knuckles and bend the hardline around and get by, but SS lines are such an improvement anyway that'd I'd suggest not skimping here.

2) Pinion angles. Your rear might be ok, but your front pinion will be way off and will trash your ujoints in short order. The cheap way to fix this is with degree shims between your springs and axles. The right way is to cut and turn your knuckles.

3) Driveshaft length. With that much lift, your front driveshaft will come really close to pulling itself apart when you flex out, and the rear won't be far behind it. The cheap way to fix this is to put a spacer on the shaft - the right way is to get your driveshafts extended.

4) Sway bar. Bye bye. You'll need longer links if you're going to retain the stock sway bar. I pitched mine, but others prefer to keep it, so that's something to keep in mind.

5) Torque bar, also called the dogbone. Also bye bye. You'll miss this more than you'll miss the sway bar, because it locates the axle and goes a long way to preventing bump steer and brake steer. Without a torque bar, any hard braking you're forced to do will be damned scary and you will soil your britches. The cheap fix for this is to extend your torque bar. The correct fix for this is to install a crossover steering setup.

6) Speaking of steering... the stock j arm is fine when everything is left factory. Once you lift the truck and yank the sway bar and torque rod, it gets scary, and also weak. Your alignment will be off due to the increase distance between the pitman arm and j arm. You'll get nasty brake and bump steer, and the j arm has a tendency to break when subjected to funky angles, and when it breaks your front wheels will go in different directions and you will soil your britches. The cheap fix for all this is to use a drop drag link (which may come with your lift kit). The right fix is to install crossover steering.

Also, the Procomp springs have a reputation for being really stiff. Procomp is owned by Four Wheel Parts, and 4WP's customer base is mall crawlers and brodozers. You may think the price is right on those now, but you might not think so later.

Apologies if you're already aware of all that, but I thought I'd mention it. I personally don't think there's any such thing as a 4" lift on the cheap, not safely anyway :). That seems awfully high anyway, what size tire are you intending to use?
 
I'm fully aware of the mall crawler reputation of procomp. It's depressing for sure and i know that the springs are rather stiff. With that said, I was kind of viewing it as anything would be an improvement over the current ride quality. The stock springs all the way around have completely given up. The front end literally has a negative arch on it.

Now given what you've said, a lot of that information is news to me. what is the better option here to do it right, that's what I'm all about. I will be doing crossover steering for sure, So I'm not terribly concerned about no sway bar. The torque bar I'm not even sure in the truck currently has that. I rescued my rig from an abusive owner that had no idea what he was doing. My issue currently is I'm getting over having mono so I haven't been to work in 6 weeks. I'm a little poor at the moment.

Ideally I would be doing the suspension modifications and high steer at the same time, however I was hoping that I could do the springs and then work for two or three weeks and do the steering mods. I'm currently running 32s and stock gears (it came that way and it's changing ASAP) Mall crawling is kind of all I can do right now.

My original plan was to do 35s and 5.29s with a 4inch spring lift. Now for the next noobly question, since the rear springs have given up what would be a good option? I don't want gangster lean from the unequal spring perches on the front so it kind of makes a RUF a bad plan, even though it moves the axle forward a bit if I'm not mistaken? It also doesn't help that the rears are nearly toast right now as it is.

My hope and dream was that i could do this without having to weld on the truck a whole lot. Mostly because I don't have anywhere to do that kind of work and shops in denver are ridiculous with kids (I'm 18) wanting work done. Currently to do highsteer I will have to ask my girlfriends dad, which I'm sure he will say yes but really? kind of ridiculous after a point.

If the procomp is going to turn out to be a waste of time perhaps something else would be a better use of funds. I will for sure be rebuilding the front axle and doing the brake lines when I get around to the suspension. Going forward though what would be a softer spring that bolts on in the stock locations, or would a better plan to be save and swallow some pride on the welding thing? I'm open to ideas I suppose.
 
I ran into the same problem when I was lifting my runner. Instead on forcing ithe line or bending the hard lines to reach, I went to napa and ordered some brake lines that were longer. I believe they were actually for a newer tundra. The ones I got went on perfectly, but you can also get adapters for your specific thread size. Overall I think I spent maybe 30 to 40 dollars and haven't had a single problem. Plus they are stainless steel woven so they will last longer
 
Well I've figured all of this out today, I did some more searching, and stumbled across a list of possible options that are pretty straight forward and don't require a whole lot of doing. I'm now going to be running wagoneer springs up front and chevy rears I guess, I can't decide on the height though. stock waggy springs only yield about 3 inches at max, I was looking at 4. I've read the 2.5" lift varient from rancho, the 44044's yield about 5. I guess I'll play it by budget!

Thanks for the line on the brake lines though! that's a huge money saver, I mean it's only 50 bucks but hey, it all counts!
 
Kuzmovka said:
I'm fully aware of the mall crawler reputation of procomp. It's depressing for sure and i know that the springs are rather stiff. With that said, I was kind of viewing it as anything would be an improvement over the current ride quality. The stock springs all the way around have completely given up. The front end literally has a negative arch on it.

Now given what you've said, a lot of that information is news to me. what is the better option here to do it right, that's what I'm all about. I will be doing crossover steering for sure, So I'm not terribly concerned about no sway bar. The torque bar I'm not even sure in the truck currently has that. I rescued my rig from an abusive owner that had no idea what he was doing. My issue currently is I'm getting over having mono so I haven't been to work in 6 weeks. I'm a little poor at the moment.

Ideally I would be doing the suspension modifications and high steer at the same time, however I was hoping that I could do the springs and then work for two or three weeks and do the steering mods. I'm currently running 32s and stock gears (it came that way and it's changing ASAP) Mall crawling is kind of all I can do right now.

My original plan was to do 35s and 5.29s with a 4inch spring lift. Now for the next noobly question, since the rear springs have given up what would be a good option? I don't want gangster lean from the unequal spring perches on the front so it kind of makes a RUF a bad plan, even though it moves the axle forward a bit if I'm not mistaken? It also doesn't help that the rears are nearly toast right now as it is.

My hope and dream was that i could do this without having to weld on the truck a whole lot. Mostly because I don't have anywhere to do that kind of work and shops in denver are ridiculous with kids (I'm 18) wanting work done. Currently to do highsteer I will have to ask my girlfriends dad, which I'm sure he will say yes but really? kind of ridiculous after a point.

If the procomp is going to turn out to be a waste of time perhaps something else would be a better use of funds. I will for sure be rebuilding the front axle and doing the brake lines when I get around to the suspension. Going forward though what would be a softer spring that bolts on in the stock locations, or would a better plan to be save and swallow some pride on the welding thing? I'm open to ideas I suppose.
Click to expand...

The front springs aren't as bad as you think they are - they were nearly flat from the factory anyway. That's just how they were designed. As long as they don't have an s-curve or any broken leaves, I'd keep them until you've researched your options a little bit more. I don't know of a Chevy spring swap that doesn't take fab work to move the spring and shackle perches anyway, and almost anything you put in the front will need a shim on one side to keep it level.

Have you looked at OME? A complete set of springs and shocks will run you near a grand, but a) they'll bolt up to the stock locations and b) they're about the best ride for a solid axle 4Runner there is, short of custom work. It's only a 2.5" lift, but IMO that's as high as you want to take one of these trucks anyway, unless you're ready to swap to wider axles right now. You can run the OME with the stock steering setup, I did.

You could theoretically install crossover steering without doing any welding, but you'll still have to grind a couple brackets off the frame, and you'd run the risk of the torque on the IFS steering box tearing it out of the frame, and then you'd be screwed. If your girl's dad is an experienced welder, I would use the hell out of that - have him take you shopping for a welder and teach you how to use it. Or hit up your community college for evening welding classes. If you're going to get into building a truck, the ability to lay a good weld will be priceless to you. :)
 
Last edited:
the Pro Comp kit that I got came with brake lines it's part number k5062b but my truck is also a solid front axle don't know if yours is or not
 
It's an 85... so yea it has a factory solid front axle. Interesting that yours came with brake lines. Is that the part number from pro comp or the seller?

@kidV my lady's dad is actually one of the most experienced chassis fab guys in the Denver area. He currently builds racecars professionally. I have been thinking about asking him to teach me as it's starting to look like I need to embrace the idea of some fab work on this thing. If I do something I want it done right, the rig is and will remain my DD regardless of what I do to it. That said I need things like steering remaining attached to my vehicle. The stock springs have got to go though. With the 32s I have on it I rub going through the dips in my neighborhood.

OME I've only heard good things about, however it is expensive and I would like to run a 35 without removing sheet metal. To me that means a bit bigger than 2.5, maybe a 3-3.5. I am kind of worried about the pinion angle though up front with anything I do. I really don't want to do a drop hanger or a relocated one just yet, I have a welded on front bumper (came that way I hate it, it's trash and useless) I am not sure that I could do the hanger without cutting that off and it opens a can of worms I'm not prepared for yet.

What can be done to help pinion angle, besides dual cases lol. Degree shims? More over what is a "bad" pinion angle, seems to me like if it will droop there stock it couldn't be all that terrible
 
It's also worth mentioning that I have really opened myself up to the enevitability of modifying the stock suspension mounts. Although apparently yj springs work up front in the stock location and are the exact same in every way, just a but wider. I'm not sure if any improvement is really offered there though.

New questions are, what helps the pinion angle? Will a yj pack yeild any benefit? Which is preferred a RUF or wagoneer springs? That's assuming a hanger replacement though which I would like to avoid, if af all possible
 
I'm at 3.5" and have just enough room for my 33s, and I don't like how tall the truck sits - very uncomfortable when I get off-camber. You can gain more room in front without lifting by shoving the axle forward, but to clear 35s in the rear without getting stupid high you'll have to a) extend your bumpstops a LOT or b) resign yourself to cutting and tubbing :). It's your truck, but I think if you plan on wheeling your beast at all, you'll find 4 inches is too high for a stock track width, especially with 35s.

Pinion angle can be tricky - it gets worse the more you lift the truck, and if you go much above three inches, it'll have to be addressed. The front gets worse faster than the rear, because that driveshaft is shorter. Here are some options, you're not going to like any of them :D... 1) degree shims will rotate the axle forward, bringing the pinion angle back into line. The major drawback to degree shims is this will jack up your alignment, specifically your caster angle, and your steering will suffer for it. Degree shims are a better idea in the rear, because you don't have to worry about alignment back there. 2) Driveline drop. This is a horrible idea, for obvious reasons, but I've seen it done. 3) Front hanger drop. Same effect as the degree shims, but a better way to do it. It has the same drawbacks - the bonus is a beefed up front hanger and crossmember, which you're going to want anyway if you're going to wheel. The stock hangers will eventually bend and break. 4) Cut and turn your knuckles. This is the RIGHT way to go, and also the most labor intensive. This is not a place for booty fab - if you choose to go this route, call Scott at Addicted Offroad. His company is a forum sponsor and he's forgetten more about Toyotas than the rest of us could hope to learn in a lifetime. If he can't do it, he'll point you in the direction of an outfit than can.

I hesitate to suggest it, but have you considered a body lift? If you absolutely must have 35s, a set of OME springs and a two inch body lift might get you in the ballpark.
 
Last edited:
If you're not ready to do any fab work, forget about doing ruf.
Same for Chevys in the rear.
A 2" BL will do more than just make room for bigger tires, you can raise the fuel tank, even the driveline.
 
a 4" lift will not clear 35's without rubbing.
hell, I have 6" on my 85, and my 35's rub at full lock/stuff.


im running the procomp 4" full spring kit. I added shackles in the front, and a 3" block in the rear. it is a fairly stiff ride, but flexes well offroad, and is quite stable on road.

im still running the stock steering, but do have crossover steering sitting in the shop, waiting to go on.
I did have my front DL lengthened and had a spacer built for the rear DL.
 
I'm sitting at 7" of lift and am sitting on 35s, I have tons of room for bigger tires. I have no rub even at full lock.
 
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this yet. I'm doing chevy rears for sure. The front I kinda want to run wagoneer leaves but I don't have the funding for a drop hanger and high steer just yet.

I found out that yj springs are the exact same set up as the stockers but are just a tad too wide. I could get some of those, in my mind I see them flexing well with the extra weight of the 4runner. Even a stiff spring on the yj would be soft on the 4runner, in my logic. Am I correct in this thinking? Does anyone have experience with the yj? Discuss...

Currently I'm liking the idea of the OME's up front, is the bigger lift varient the "heavy" spring rate?
 
92-SR5 said:
I'm sitting at 7" of lift and am sitting on 35s, I have tons of room for bigger tires. I have no rub even at full lock.
Click to expand...
different fender opening.
did you mount the front end forward at all for clearance?

with the front end in the stock location on the spec'd springs, 35's and a 4" will rub, a lot.

Kuzmovka said:
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this yet. I'm doing chevy rears for sure. The front I kinda want to run wagoneer leaves but I don't have the funding for a drop hanger and high steer just yet.

I found out that yj springs are the exact same set up as the stockers but are just a tad too wide. I could get some of those, in my mind I see them flexing well with the extra weight of the 4runner. Even a stiff spring on the yj would be soft on the 4runner, in my logic. Am I correct in this thinking? Does anyone have experience with the yj? Discuss...

Currently I'm liking the idea of the OME's up front, is the bigger lift varient the "heavy" spring rate?
Click to expand...
link to where it says yj springs are the same?

I was sure they were shorter.
 
nevada said:
different fender opening.
did you mount the front end forward at all for clearance?

with the front end in the stock location on the spec'd springs, 35's and a 4" will rub, a lot.

link to where it says yj springs are the same?

I was sure they were shorter.
Click to expand...

Mine is a couple inches forward. With 3" lift springs up front.
 
Last edited:
Stock toyota front springs are 45" eye to eye and have the pin at 22.5" on each side (centered). Yj springs have the same measurements. Thats as per pirate 4x4 in the toyota hardcore section. It's in the FAQ. Now that said yj springs are for SUA, but if you got a yj SOA conversion lift spring it would work the same in my eyes, and flex a bit better with the added weight. So maybe a 4.5" spring would give 3" of lift to us. Worth mentioning however they are a bit wide, you gotta trim maybe an 1/8" of each side to mount them. Easy enough to do.

Nice SAS btw, that thing is gnarly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

Total: 185 (members: 4, guests: 181)

Forum statistics

Threads
278,312
Messages
3,554,083
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Share this page

Trending content

Back
Top