Failing Government

[OHP]

I hate to throw a political thread up on the board but I'm going to anyway because I want to hear what other citizens think. I just read an article on CNN.com called "Why do we pay politicians" and it inspired me to ask all of you this question. IMHO the American government in it's current form is failing miserably. I believe that this is happening because our leaders are nothing more than out of touch millionaires that are in Washington for no other reason than for their own benefit and the benefit of those that fund their campaigns. (Big Corporations) They are not working to better our lives. That's for sure.

So my question is this: Why do we as Americans tolerate this?

Is it because we don't have a better choice?
Is it because we don't care?
Is it because we are oblivious to whats going on?
Am I the only one that thinks the government is failing us?
Why don't we just stand up and vote them out?

I'd like to hear your opinions. Please try not to fight. eace:

 

[blizz86]

I hate to throw a political thread up on the board but I'm going to anyway because I want to hear what other citizens think. I just read an article on CNN.com called "Why do we pay politicians" and it inspired me to ask all of you this question. IMHO the American government in it's current form is failing miserably. I believe that this is happening because our leaders are nothing more than out of touch millionaires that are in Washington for no other reason than for their own benefit and the benefit of those that fund their campaigns. (Big Corporations) They are not working to better our lives. That's for sure.

So my question is this: Why do we as Americans tolerate this?

Is it because we don't have a better choice?
Is it because we don't care?
Is it because we are oblivious to whats going on?
Am I the only one that thinks the government is failing us?
Why don't we just stand up and vote them out?

I'd like to hear your opinions. Please try not to fight. eace:

First off, i like that you didnt take any side and, to me at least, remained somewhat neutral. To answer your questions, i think that they are all correct. If someone had a sensible solution to fixing our pre-dominately two party system, it would be pretty damn hard to get any information distributed since the media just won't tolerate it. I forget who said this but i remember it went something like "the media used to serve as a middle man between citizens and the government, now the media serves as a 4th branch of government" or something along those lines..

 

[BucknutBob]

Wherever money and power come together in large quantities, corruption and failure are sure to follow. Our political system, our legal system, our medical system, our manufacturing unions, our sports programs...you name it, it follows the inevitable pattern. Sure, some good still comes from Washington occasionally, but it always comes with an asterisk, a catch of some sort. Now get ready to be bumped to the "Off Topic" section, where this sort of commentary belongs.

 

[Hepar]

In my opinion there isn't a straight answer to this. I am a left, but I do feel our government is failing us. But is it their fault? Or is it something we have created? We have a system where there's state and federal and most of the time they are battling each other. Makes no sense. To me the problem lies in two major areas. One, we are too big as one country. Two, we have too many people. Combine the two and I think it's almost impossible to have an effective system. We should really be at least 4 smaller countries.

Of course this is a ridiculously simplistic answer to a ridiculously complex problem.

 

[-JD-]

The government no longer works for the people, it works for big corporations.

The best path to getting your industry de-regulated? turn the people against the government, the one and only body standing between you and them.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I just read an article on CNN.com

I think this might be part of your problem. Yes the government is screwy but Cable news and their corresponding websites are the bottom of the barrel of News. This would include MSNBC, and FOX as well.


You would probably be much better off if you:

a) read news from an actual newspaper, choose one of hundreds (preferably one that isn't traded publicly)
b) listened to independent news for example PodCasts like Democracy Now.
c) give NPR a listen, they are still rated the most accurate over cable news and editorials.


Personally, I get most of my news the following sources and while not perfect at least none of them are 24 HR news companies:

* NY-Times (people, please don't hate just because there are more than 500 words per article)
* Washington Post
* Wall Street Journal
* LA Times
* Google News Feeder (sometimes crappy I will admit)
* Wired.com

Podcasts ....
* No Agenda Podcast (give it a try!)
* Democracy Now (Daily online news and free podcast)


:zoom:

 

[BrianSD_42]

So my question is this: Why do we as Americans tolerate this?

Is it because we don't have a better choice?
Is it because we don't care?
Is it because we are oblivious to whats going on?
Am I the only one that thinks the government is failing us?
Why don't we just stand up and vote them out?

It is the two party system. It has failed us leaving us with only corporate Democrats and Republicans or outsiders like Ron Paul and Ralf Nader. There is no in-between.


Here is an example of how your news has failed you:

RIGHT NOW the news flooded with story after story about SYRIA and the 10,000+ killed in an ongoing civil war.

What you don't hear on the TV or read on the internet is that SYRIA has a population of 20,000+ MILLION people.

Do they have any resources that US companies can contract to mine? Not to my knowledge.
Are we going to bomb them into submission? NO.
Are we going to invade with 100,000 troops? LOL - No.
Could we still topple the current government? Maybe, but I am not in the know.

Can you think of any other countries where more than 10,000 innocent people have died recently?
* Mexico has suffered 40,000+ civilian deaths in their war with the cartels.
* The Congo ..... 200,000+ Christian (their main religion) women were raped in 2011 alone.
* The Sudan .... lets not even go there it is like over 1 Million people killed in last 5 years.
* There are so many more examples but I won't list them...


Did the US intervene in any of those cases? No.


:bash:

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Government


1. Government never really intends to "fix" the problems at hand. If they did, myriad bureaucrats would be out of a cushy job. Think war on drugs, war on poverty, war on illiteracy,, etc., etc., etc.

2. A near-majority of the populace is dependent upon some kind of government program (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public housing, food stamps, student loans/grants, disability payments, WIC, "free" school lunches, etc., etc.) and the number of people {as a percentage of the entire workforce} paying the freight is gradually decreasing. As Ross Perot used to say, "We have too many people riding in the wagon and too few willing to pull it!."

3. Our education system is failing our society (not assigning blame - just telling the truth) and so few citizens have a "working knowledge" of basic economic principles, US history, civics and an understanding of the US Constitution. People are more easily led astray by conniving politicians if they are ignorant or misinformed.

4. We have a "professional political class" whose primary goal is re-election and acquiring power over others. Worse yet, they have minions who swallow the lies - hook line & sinker - disguised as 'solutions' to their problems.

Those are just a few of them I can recite off the top of my head; although I know there are plenty of others. As we more and more frequently have to vote "against" a candidate - rather than FOR someone...................it means that fewer and fewer concerned citizens are willing to go through the process of casting ballots.

 

[Atlanta_man]

We don't just vote for our wallet's benefit.

We very much enjoy having 'cool' celebrity politicians with beautiful families.

 

[Anomaly]

We have a system where there's state and federal and most of the time they are battling each other. Makes no sense. To me the problem lies in two major areas. One, we are too big as one country. Two, we have too many people. Combine the two and I think it's almost impossible to have an effective system. We should really be at least 4 smaller countries.

Of course this is a ridiculously simplistic answer to a ridiculously complex problem.

I think we're already at what you're opinion is (ref. 4 smaller countries) - only we're 50 smaller countries unified under one flag. But you're absolutely right that the arguments between state and federal levels of gov't are hurting the whole.

4. We have a "professional political class" whose primary goal is re-election and acquiring power over others. Worse yet, they have minions who swallow the lies - hook line & sinker - disguised as 'solutions' to their problems.

Truth. And I like your terminology: "Professional Political Class"
It's very accurate because many of the politicians do run around like their in a class all their own, very separate from the people who elected them to "serve", and flexing their positional power.

 

[BrianSD_42]

To me the problem lies in two major areas. One, we are too big as one country. Two, we have too many people. Combine the two and I think it's almost impossible to have an effective system. We should really be at least 4 smaller countries.

I have to disagree. We are not basically four separate large countries. We are one county (currently at war btw). I think Americans see themselves as Americans not as members of a certain state -at least our here on the West coast.

The United States won WW1, WW2, Cold War, Landed on the moon and still currently dominates the world through capitalistic influence. All of this is possible because we are "one nation united" sea-to-sea.

*** The United States is difficult to attack because it is strategically placed between two oceans. As a whole, it has VAST resources within its domain. Consider the entire continental states + HI & AL and all of the US territories. This was all planned out by our forefathers to create a great large nation.

*** We are not overcrowded compared to other countries in the world. OK/KS/AL/WY/SD/ND/UT are all pretty empty if you feel the need to own land.

*** If America was split up into 4 smaller powers we would become insignificant. We must stay one nation forever.

​

:keyboard:

Personally, I think we need the draft back. I say that because many of my fellow countrymen seem to have lost perspective that we are "one nation" with shared interests. Meaning that I have a valid interest in the well being of fellow citizens whether they be in CA or NC.

A soldier based at Camp Pendleton or Fort Hood may be from FL, fighting right alongside guys from MI all so that United States citizens wherever they may be located can enjoy the "American way of life."

We are all one, even though it doesn't seem that way when you turn on the TV.

.

 

[tbst]

I am gone, come back to find we are still going strong.

I think one of the biggest problems IMO, is I am stuck voting for someone who is in bed with big banks, because of their social agenda is so much less radical than the other religious nutcase who is in bed with big banks.

My point is that we are stuck voting for the lessor of two evils (whatever that maybe, this isn't the thread for it).

The better way is that we have elections that are run by the people. And that the people we send to congress aren't sheep following their party agenda, rather voices for the people in that specific part of the county, representing those people.

 

[shadow247]

Personally, I think we need the draft back. I say that because many of my fellow countrymen seem to have lost perspective that we are "one nation" with shared interests. Meaning that I have a valid interest in the well being of fellow citizens whether they be in CA or NC.


.

I would have to strongly disagree with you on this point. A draft would only further embolden the elites who currently hold power to start more wars. If there had been no draft, Vietnam would not have lasted nearly as long as it did. The problem we have now is that we are fighting 2 wars with no clear purpose, and involved in many other war-like actions that again have no clear purpose. "Fighting terrorism" is not a real goal, as terrorism has no country, no creed, and no real ideology other than to kill those who they feel have wronged them. WE (as in the CIA and other elites in the US GOV) created the problems in Afghanistan, by embracing the very radicals we are fighting against over there. Until we stop playing world police and moral master, we will continue on our downward spiral into national poverty and ignorance.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I guess we will just have to disagree.

I think our leaders are more willing to go to war because the general population does not serve. A disconnect exists. There is no push back, no protests anymore. Children of the rich and middle class do not HAVE to serve. Some to choose to anyways. I recently went to college and I fully believe their would be more student involvement with government if those kids were holding draft cards.

Only 1% of the US population serves in the military now. Something is wrong with that and it needs to be re-examined.

Of those of us who are veterans you don't hear a lot on this topic publicly but it is talked about.

.

 

[OHP]

I think one of the biggest problems IMO, is I am stuck voting for someone who is in bed with big banks, because of their social agenda is so much less radical than the other religious nutcase who is in bed with big banks.

My point is that we are stuck voting for the lessor of two evils (whatever that maybe, this isn't the thread for it).

The better way is that we have elections that are run by the people. And that the people we send to congress aren't sheep following their party agenda, rather voices for the people in that specific part of the county, representing those people.

I couldn't agree more. There simply is no good choice for a candidate. Do you vote for this crooked politician with this ideaology, or that crooked politician with that ideology? Either way we are forced to vote for and put crooks in the highest political positions. The problem is that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Joe Blow politician may have started his political career with the best of intensions, but when he got in the mix where corruption is the norm, his morals are gone along with any chance of him representing his constituents. There is no way to stop this vicious cycle. Term limits on all elected officials might help this problem, but guess who would have to vote that into law?

 

[RandyDaytona]

I think this might be part of your problem. Yes the government is screwy but Cable news and their corresponding websites are the bottom of the barrel of News. This would include MSNBC, and FOX as well.

Agree. When I worked in military intel, we got all of our open-source 'news' via the BBC. There wasn't a single U.S.-based news outlet that was even nearly as unbiased.

 

[Hepar]

I have to disagree. We are not basically four separate large countries. We are one county (currently at war btw). I think Americans see themselves as Americans not as members of a certain state -at least our here on the West coast.

The United States won WW1, WW2, Cold War, Landed on the moon and still currently dominates the world through capitalistic influence. All of this is possible because we are "one nation united" sea-to-sea.

*** The United States is difficult to attack because it is strategically placed between two oceans. As a whole, it has VAST resources within its domain. Consider the entire continental states + HI & AL and all of the US territories. This was all planned out by our forefathers to create a great large nation.

*** We are not overcrowded compared to other countries in the world. OK/KS/AL/WY/SD/ND/UT are all pretty empty if you feel the need to own land.

*** If America was split up into 4 smaller powers we would become insignificant. We must stay one nation forever.​

I definitely wasn't saying that we are acting as four separate countries right now. Just that we could possibly benefit from a separation in a way. I do agree that many accomplishments came from being one unified country, but I do still think we are over capacity as far as bodies in comparison to land. I'm not saying that we have too many people and that's it. I think with the numbers of people we have and the fact that we are spread out over such a vast country has its disadvantages. What works for us here in the PNW will be completely different from what works for people in FL. And to try to have one government dictate that in conjunction with all of the state governments is next to impossible in my opinion.​

 

[Koz]

No politician should be allowed to SERVE more then one or two terms.

We should fire ALL politicians immediately and temporally take random citizens off the street to do the job until new people can be elected.

Politicians should give an agenda/schedule on the things they intend to do when they are elected and be held accountable for completing their agenda. The public should be able to remove ANY politician within a days notice if there is any deviation from their committed agenda, with a majority vote.

The government should not be able to police itself and no one should get imunity or special privilages from the law! NO ONE! (VERY IMPORTANT).

No politician should get ANY campaign money from anyone or any special interest, NONE.


Koz

 

[RandyDaytona]

As far as our elected representatives, I agree that there's a problem. They're an elite class unto themselves, a ruling "royal family" which this country was partly founded to get away from. They make decisions and back ideas which serve to perpetuate their stay in office, whether it's the 'right' thing to do or not. They've become a self-licking ice cream cone of narcissism.

But keep in mind that there are two aspects of "government:" the elected ones who wield the vast majority of the power and who essentially run everything, and the employees who are - by and large - instruments of that power.

I point this out because of the irony in it: our country has been riding a wave of anti-government sentiment in the past few years, yet it's mainly been aimed at government employees - not our elected reps. And who's been riding that wave and trying to drum up popularity for making it bigger? You guessed it: our fearless elected 'leaders' (and I use that term loosely).

 

[Jeff Kleb]

We each have different "pet peeves" that get us in a lather about what might be wrong with this nation.........but the crux of the problem is that our federal government is too big, tries to be all things to all people and it spends too much money.

Until and unless we can get back to following (and even understanding) the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the concept of 'enumerated powers', the problem will get worse and worse as time goes on.

The "one size fits all" ideas that emanate from DC often end up doing exactly the opposite of what they are supposed to do - and darn near bankrupting us in the process.

All that notwithstanding, I love the comments I see here today!
:hungry: