Fast but long cranking after new battery

[Babyfood1217]

Preface: I've been dealing with some electrical gremlins, and decided to bump up a new battery purchase to elminate one variable. I hadn't planned on buying a new one until the spring, but oh well. A little more on that below...

2002 SR5 Sport - 200k

I've finally had a little bit of time to explore some recent glitches my truck has been displaying. 3 distinct events, really.

1) Leaving work, I turned the key and while the engine was turning over, the stereo blinked on and off a few times, and dash lights fluttered briefly but I couldn't glance at them quick enough before they fluttered their last and stayed off. Engine fired pretty quickly and ran like normal. No indicator lights remained on. Numerous start-ups and drives after this occurred without incident

2) A few days later, the same thing happened, but I was a lot quicker to look at the dash while the event was unfolding. Numerous/most dash lights were on, notably, the battery and e-brake light, which lingered on a second or two long than the others. The lights turned off after tapping the throttle. Everything continued as normal after this occurrence. After getting home from this drive, I left the vehicle running and grabbed by my multimeter to check a few numbers. Tested with wipers and fan going, as well as without, and the number I compared them to elsewhere on this site said they were ok-ish. Again, numerous start-ups and drives occurred after this without incident.

3) Yesterday, I turned the key, and the starter (just the starter, not the engine turning over) clicked numerous times, but it didn't sound/seem like the engine was turning over with it. I removed the key, reinserted, and the engine turned over just a couple times before starting up and operating as normal.

Current:

I've been staring at a handful of threads regarding similar sounding issues, and I felt I could narrow down the issues to some aspects of the following:
- battery
- alternator
- starter
I'm not totally sure that all of the problems were/are related, but those three components are what I began to focus on. Now is the point I decided to eliminate one variable and go get a new battery. It had been on my "get" list for next spring, as I've had the truck for a number of years, and the stickers/stamps were all so mangled, I couldn't tell how old the battery was. I dropped in a O'Reillys green light special - 24F 750ccA/935cA/130min res., which had the same ccA/cA as the Duralast I pulled out. Swapped them in the parts store parking lot, and started it up.

Except, it wouldn't, at least not right away. As I turned the key, I heard/felt the engine turn over, and it did so with a vengeance! It was so fast! The problem was, it took numerous seconds for the engine to actually fire. I drove the few miles home, a bit perplexed, and after parking and shutting off the vehicle, I decided to pull the terminal clamps and scrub them clean/smear with a thing layer of dielectric grease. After this task, I wanted to confirm things were hooked up, so I again went to start the truck. Same thing happened.

The motor is clearly turning over, and is doing so quite quickly (faster than I have ever experienced since owning this for a few years now), but it takes so long to actually fire and start running. It has less than 15k on new plugs/wires, and honestly, the thing has been running great, so being a little stumped, I hopped back on here and have been trying to do a little armchair diagnosing. There's much talk about fuel pumps and pressure losses, but I not gonna jump onto that band wagon until I read more and figure out some diagnostic methods I can employ to help narrow things down. I feel like I need to use the vehicle for a while to see if any of the initial symptoms replicate themselves before I can entirely shift my focus on the prolong-but-fast cranking thing.

Does anyone have a thought or two about what might be causing this?

-Chris

 

[thecole1098]

Try checking your grounds in the engine bay. Namely the one for the diagnostic port, one on firewall going to passenger side cylinder block and ground by the oil filter. Oh and of course the one from the negative terminal to fender.

 

[Babyfood1217]

Try checking your grounds in the engine bay. Namely the one for the diagnostic port, one on firewall going to passenger side cylinder block and ground by the oil filter. Oh and of course the one from the negative terminal to fender.

That's funny you say that. I have had some heavy gauge cable (read: welding cable remnants) sitting in my truck maintenance tub for the purpose of upgrading the grounds. I guess I have seen reference to grounding issues on a number of the threads/post I've been reading though, but to me, it's seems like the quick/fast/rapidfire cranking couldn't happen with loose grounds. Now, a loose ground COULD explain the electrical sputtering that I experienced in the first place. I think maybe I'll fast track the heavy grounding cable mod now too

 

[thegipper]

Any time I'm having any electrical issues I always start with the basics. Check your grounds and other connections. Clean as necessary. Don't just check the ground cable on the battery but the actual grounds on the vehicle.

I've been burned by faulty ground wires more times than I care to admit.

 

[vwtech]

Preface: I've been dealing with some electrical gremlins, and decided to bump up a new battery purchase to elminate one variable. I hadn't planned on buying a new one until the spring, but oh well. A little more on that below...

2002 SR5 Sport - 200k

I've finally had a little bit of time to explore some recent glitches my truck has been displaying. 3 distinct events, really.

1) Leaving work, I turned the key and while the engine was turning over, the stereo blinked on and off a few times, and dash lights fluttered briefly but I couldn't glance at them quick enough before they fluttered their last and stayed off. Engine fired pretty quickly and ran like normal. No indicator lights remained on. Numerous start-ups and drives after this occurred without incident

2) A few days later, the same thing happened, but I was a lot quicker to look at the dash while the event was unfolding. Numerous/most dash lights were on, notably, the battery and e-brake light, which lingered on a second or two long than the others. The lights turned off after tapping the throttle. Everything continued as normal after this occurrence. After getting home from this drive, I left the vehicle running and grabbed by my multimeter to check a few numbers. Tested with wipers and fan going, as well as without, and the number I compared them to elsewhere on this site said they were ok-ish. Again, numerous start-ups and drives occurred after this without incident.

3) Yesterday, I turned the key, and the starter (just the starter, not the engine turning over) clicked numerous times, but it didn't sound/seem like the engine was turning over with it. I removed the key, reinserted, and the engine turned over just a couple times before starting up and operating as normal.

Current:

I've been staring at a handful of threads regarding similar sounding issues, and I felt I could narrow down the issues to some aspects of the following:
- battery
- alternator
- starter
I'm not totally sure that all of the problems were/are related, but those three components are what I began to focus on. Now is the point I decided to eliminate one variable and go get a new battery. It had been on my "get" list for next spring, as I've had the truck for a number of years, and the stickers/stamps were all so mangled, I couldn't tell how old the battery was. I dropped in a O'Reillys green light special - 24F 750ccA/935cA/130min res., which had the same ccA/cA as the Duralast I pulled out. Swapped them in the parts store parking lot, and started it up.

Except, it wouldn't, at least not right away. As I turned the key, I heard/felt the engine turn over, and it did so with a vengeance! It was so fast! The problem was, it took numerous seconds for the engine to actually fire. I drove the few miles home, a bit perplexed, and after parking and shutting off the vehicle, I decided to pull the terminal clamps and scrub them clean/smear with a thing layer of dielectric grease. After this task, I wanted to confirm things were hooked up, so I again went to start the truck. Same thing happened.

The motor is clearly turning over, and is doing so quite quickly (faster than I have ever experienced since owning this for a few years now), but it takes so long to actually fire and start running. It has less than 15k on new plugs/wires, and honestly, the thing has been running great, so being a little stumped, I hopped back on here and have been trying to do a little armchair diagnosing. There's much talk about fuel pumps and pressure losses, but I not gonna jump onto that band wagon until I read more and figure out some diagnostic methods I can employ to help narrow things down. I feel like I need to use the vehicle for a while to see if any of the initial symptoms replicate themselves before I can entirely shift my focus on the prolong-but-fast cranking thing.

Does anyone have a thought or two about what might be causing this?

-Chris

My 97 Limited has had a little bit of an extended crank since I bought it, figured it was just kind of the nature of the beast. Never had mine not start so I haven't worried about it. Although it is strange you noticed yours doing it after the battery change....

 

[19963.4lsr5]

My 97 Limited has had a little bit of an extended crank since I bought it, figured it was just kind of the nature of the beast. Never had mine not start so I haven't worried about it. Although it is strange you noticed yours doing it after the battery change....

Doing it after a battery change could simply mean the adaptive parameters got dumped and it just needs to relearn things like IAC position during cold and hot start positions. But, if he keeps resetting the PCM.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Babyfood1217]

Doing it after a battery change could simply mean the adaptive parameters got dumped and it just needs to relearn things like IAC position during cold and hot start positions. But, if he keeps resetting the PCM.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whoa whoa whoa. This comment triggers something I feel I first read about when I bought this truck. I tried googling/search adaptive parameters, without much luck. Is that what Toyota calls it? I'd like to read a little more about it.

BTW: I didn't really have any issues this morning when I started the truck up. I'll try to attach the video I made. Current "network" issues are preventing it.


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[thecole1098]

Whoa whoa whoa. This comment triggers something I feel I first read about when I bought this truck. I tried googling/search adaptive parameters, without much luck. Is that what Toyota calls it? I'd like to read a little more about it.

BTW: I didn't really have any issues this morning when I started the truck up. I'll try to attach the video I made. Current "network" issues are preventing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When the battery is disconnected for about 15 minute or more or if the EFI fuse under the hood is pulled for that amount of time, the ECU has to relearn all the parameters used for the fuel trim/mapping. This can cause several seemingly odd issues after replacing a battery, such as an extremely high idle on cold startup or out of sync shifting as the transmission also has to relearn its optimal shift points. Starting can also be affected by this until the computer relearns the parameters of all the various sensors used for starting and fuel mapping.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Whoa whoa whoa. This comment triggers something I feel I first read about when I bought this truck. I tried googling/search adaptive parameters, without much luck. Is that what Toyota calls it? I'd like to read a little more about it.

BTW: I didn't really have any issues this morning when I started the truck up. I'll try to attach the video I made. Current "network" issues are preventing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just drive it for now and see what happens. The Adaptive Parameters is a Domestic title. But Toyota has to have the same thing or as the engine ages and the default settings are not good enough...... there would be drivability issues etc......

The PCM has to adapt to the engine for cold and hot starting and achieving its target idle under all conditions.


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[octanejunkie]

[MENTION=141110]Babyfood1217[/MENTION] how often do you have to clean the white crud off your battery terminal connectors?

 

[Babyfood1217]

[MENTION=141110]Babyfood1217[/MENTION] how often do you have to clean the white crud off your battery terminal connectors?

How often DO I or how often SHOULD I? I don't do it often enough, that's for sure. I will say, I usually don't have too much. The terminal clamps are the factory stamped brass ones still, though I want to upgrade them to larger clamps with aux. mounting points. I did clean an amount off when I swapped the battery, namely due to the fact that when I installed the neg. clamp on the new battery's neg. post, I could see a significant visible gap where corrosion buildup was preventing the clamp from mating well. When I got home from getting the battery, I pulled the clamps off and scrub them a little bit more before smearing everything with a healthy dose of dielectric grease and reinstalling.

My 2nd gen needed that white crud cleaned off every few months until I got a new battery and threw new terminal clamps on. I assumed the battery had some sort of leak.

 

[octanejunkie]

How often DO I or how often SHOULD I? I don't do it often enough, that's for sure. I will say, I usually don't have too much. The terminal clamps are the factory stamped brass ones still, though I want to upgrade them to larger clamps with aux. mounting points. I did clean an amount off when I swapped the battery, namely due to the fact that when I installed the neg. clamp on the new battery's neg. post, I could see a significant visible gap where corrosion buildup was preventing the clamp from mating well. When I got home from getting the battery, I pulled the clamps off and scrub them a little bit more before smearing everything with a healthy dose of dielectric grease and reinstalling.

My 2nd gen needed that white crud cleaned off every few months until I got a new battery and threw new terminal clamps on. I assumed the battery had some sort of leak.

You either have a short, or resistance somewhere, that is causing that.

Mix a tablespoon of baking soda into a cup of water and soak each terminal in its own cup with that solution until the bubbling stops. Then brush and rinse till each terminal clean, then dry. Do one cable at a time. Hit the battery terminals with steel wool till shiny. I remove the battery to do this more easily and with no risk of shorting anything.

Its also possible your main battery cabling itself is corroded internally, a huge source of resistance, which is why lots of guys do the Big 3 Upgrade, as well as to pass more amps for accessories.

Don't over look old wiring as being a potential problem. Eventually we will all need to replace our wiring harnesses, the jackets don't last forever.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[19963.4lsr5]

[MENTION=141110]Babyfood1217[/MENTION] how often do you have to clean the white crud off your battery terminal connectors?

On my interstates never. Plus I use a antioxidant conductive grease on the battery terminals and posts. When the battery starts leaking or venting out the posts you get the corrosion.


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[gamefreakgc]

1. Radio turning on/off is completely normal for an aftermarket unit. They are triggered to receive power on the "On" position, so when you go from on to "Start" the radio turns off and loses power. Not a big deal.

3. The "click" is your starter contacts going bad. Look into removing and replacing the contacts soon before you get stranded.