Finally here: my 2016 SuperWhite 'TRD Trail' w/KDSS

[CoolMax]

Congratulations. Your TRD looks beautiful. I am waiting for my SR5 to arrive in Seattle in a couple of weeks. I have requested the dealer to add running boards on. Now I am wondering if I should. the dealer is going to charge me something like $750 installed. Is it really worth it?

The running boards are ~$350: http://trdparts4u.toyotaofdallas.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=329551
I don't how they would cost $400 to install...

Hey, that is even better. So these protect the bottom edges of the rig in case of contact with dirt or rock? Otherwise they function the same as running board?

I want them for two purpose so: to make the interior more accessible for my elderly short mom, amid to be able to reach the roof rack where I will be carrying a bike.

At lower prices than the stock boards do you recommend the sliders? I am not afraid of some mechanical work, but are there places that can properly install them for me if I needed to?

Thanks

Shrockworks slider with dimpled tread plates should cost ~$615 plus shipping, etc...I'm sure you can find someone to install them.

 

[SACHUEISTA]

Yup, and yup!

I see this just as I start my 85 build...makes me think of trading in the 05 and saying heck with it...Pretty rig man.

 

[b407driver]

Do you mind posting or PMing how much they charged to install the suspension and cosmetic bits? I'm actually considering MS for my next 4R.

Answering that question directly would be a bit like apples and oranges; no two situations are alike, and I don't really want to put anyone in a weird situation. That being said, this process is easy enough to start the negotiations on:

1) Walk in and ask to buy a TRD Pro

2) When they say they don't have any, ask them how long it would take to get one

3) When they tell you 3-6 months, ask them how much it would cost for that basic TRD Pro

4) When they give you that number, then say: "OK, how about you take a Trail Premium and build me a TRD Pro out of it, same price?"

5) And then the negotiating begins...

As you probably know, Trails don't last long around here, and many/most are sold before they hit the lot; if you have lots of specific ideas about what you do/don't want, you have to do like I did and order one that was allocated but still being built. MS probably could have gotten one from another dealer, but I wasn't really in a hurry, though the wait did nearly kill me! lol

So that being said, a TRD Pro would have been $43,990 (no TTL) with crossbars, mats, running boards and paint protection here in CO; I paid 44,498 for the conversion. I did pick up the TRD skid plate outside of this deal, so the difference was actually $758.

Good enough for me, considering I have KDSS and a sunroof. :spy:

 

[b407driver]

The running boards are ~$350: I don't how they would cost $400 to install...

Right. I started at Stevinson Toyota West for this endeavor, and all the parts they quoted they'd added 20-30% onto the website-listed prices. When I pointed out the fact that the parts were listed right on their very own website for substantially less, they shrugged.

Needless to say some car dealers will try to screw you if they think they can screw you.

 

[1engineer]

Damn, you're good at bursting people's bubbles! You get paid for this?

This guy started a thread this morning here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/225382-took-truck-drive.html and I thought of you and your running boards. Take a look at the pictures of his 4Runner with running boards...

 

[b407driver]

This guy started a thread this morning here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/225382-took-truck-drive.html and I thought of you and your running boards. Take a look at the pictures of his 4Runner with running boards...

I'll bet you did.

Are his tires wider than mine? Wheel spacers? Trimmed mudflaps? I don't care so much about dirt, it's the sludgy wet road-slush crap that I kick off of my Sequoia's running boards that I'm pretty sure would otherwise be on the side of the truck. Probably not much difference, admittedly, but until I see an A:B test with identical vehicles on the same roadway with running boards vs. none, I'll consider either and any side of this anecdotal, at best.

Now, if you want to talk C-rated tire pressures, I'm all ears.

 

[1engineer]

I'll bet you did.

Are his tires wider than mine? Wheel spacers? Trimmed mudflaps? I don't care so much about dirt, it's the sludgy wet road-slush crap that I kick off of my Sequoia's running boards that I'm pretty sure would otherwise be on the side of the truck. Probably not much difference, admittedly, but until I see an A:B test with identical vehicles on the same roadway with running boards vs. none, I'll consider either and any side of this anecdotal, at best.

Now, if you want to talk C-rated tire pressures, I'm all ears.

I've heard closing your eyes and plugging your ears while singing "la la la" works too lol.

For your tire question? There does not need to be any talk or discussion. Here is the answer. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...s/110299-lt-tires-need-more-air-pressure.html

 

[jwfowler]

Rig Looks great

 

[b407driver]

I've heard closing your eyes and plugging your ears while singing "la la la" works too lol.

It does indeed; works better with some people than others.

Thanks for the link, that was the one I was looking for but couldn't re-find. :biggrin2:

 

[b407driver]

I've heard closing your eyes and plugging your ears while singing "la la la" works too lol.

For your tire question? There does not need to be any talk or discussion. Here is the answer. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...s/110299-lt-tires-need-more-air-pressure.html

Again [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], thanks for the link, your help is appreciated. I get that LT tires need more pressure, but I don't get why different categories of LT tires seem to need the same pressure, per JB's insistence in that thread.

I re-read the thread now that I have something 'concrete' in my garage, and must admit I'm a bit perplexed regarding the basic premise that the recommended pressure for a "C" rated tire should be the exact same as that for an "E" rated tire, simply because they are both "LT" tires. It seems that the physics dictating that an LT tire should have a different pressure than a P tire should similarly dictate that different 'levels' of LT tires should have different pressures given identical loading. I get that the TRA gives no specific guidance that I could find (other than merely extending the data to higher loading weights), it just seems to fly in the face of what seems intuitively obvious to me, and hopefully someone can steer me right here.

Not that DiscountTireDirect is assumed to be correct or anything, but they did give a recommended pressure of 40psi for C-rated AT3's in a 2016 4Runner. Wondering where DTD got this from; I looked for an inflation/load table from Cooper, but the Toyo document (that references TRA tables) is all that I could find.

Out of curiosity I called DTD.com and inquired as to the different recommended pressures for Cooper Discoverer AT3s in the three different load ratings (265/70-17, for the 4Runner), and here's what their computer popped out:

• P=31psi
• C1=40psi
• E1=43psi

Nowhere in the Toyo PDF/TRA tables can I see how this data point can be interpolated for C, nor can I see how their E1 number can be that far below 50psi, unless they are assuming a sub-maximal load (which would certainly be reasonable, *most* of the time). Seems like 'legal' inflation pressures reference only maximum load, so not sure how they'd settle on a specific number (weight) less than that maximum.

Anyway, my gut feel is that DTD's numbers are probably pretty close to reality for most daily uses, not ignoring the fact that I don't have E-rated tires to play around with (but anecdotally around here, it seems people run E's at higher pressures than C's).

Did I miss a relevant post or something??? :ybrick:

[FWIW, as far as my limited experience goes, the dealer-inflated pressure of 46 felt a bit stiff, and it was pretty clear that the outer 3/4-inch of tread wasn't on the ground. At 42 it felt a bit better, but still some tread not touching (I read and re-read JB's insistence that this doesn't matter, re: chalk tests). At 40 they now feel just a very small touch wallowy with all tread on the ground (probably slightly too much contact), but I only have 10 miles at this pressure and no highway miles, so I'll reserve judgment until then.]

 

[K9trainer]

Did they install the new version front TRD shocks?

 

[b407driver]

Did they install the new version front TRD shocks?

Yes; since I way paying for it, I specifically requested the -160 serial numbers, and told them that if they installed the -150's, they'd just have to remove them and re-install the 160s before I'd accept delivery.

 

[1engineer]

Again [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], thanks for the link, your help is appreciated. I get that LT tires need more pressure, but I don't get why different categories of LT tires seem to need the same pressure, per JB's insistence in that thread.

I re-read the thread now that I have something 'concrete' in my garage, and must admit I'm a bit perplexed regarding the basic premise that the recommended pressure for a "C" rated tire should be the exact same as that for an "E" rated tire, simply because they are both "LT" tires. It seems that the physics dictating that an LT tire should have a different pressure than a P tire should similarly dictate that different 'levels' of LT tires should have different pressures given identical loading. I get that the TRA gives no specific guidance that I could find (other than merely extending the data to higher loading weights), it just seems to fly in the face of what seems intuitively obvious to me, and hopefully someone can steer me right here.

Not that DiscountTireDirect is assumed to be correct or anything, but they did give a recommended pressure of 40psi for C-rated AT3's in a 2016 4Runner. Wondering where DTD got this from; I looked for an inflation/load table from Cooper, but the Toyo document (that references TRA tables) is all that I could find.

Out of curiosity I called DTD.com and inquired as to the different recommended pressures for Cooper Discoverer AT3s in the three different load ratings (265/70-17, for the 4Runner), and here's what their computer popped out:

• P=31psi
• C1=40psi
• E1=43psi

Nowhere in the Toyo PDF/TRA tables can I see how this data point can be interpolated for C, nor can I see how their E1 number can be that far below 50psi, unless they are assuming a sub-maximal load (which would certainly be reasonable, *most* of the time). Seems like 'legal' inflation pressures reference only maximum load, so not sure how they'd settle on a specific number (weight) less than that maximum.

Anyway, my gut feel is that DTD's numbers are probably pretty close to reality for most daily uses, not ignoring the fact that I don't have E-rated tires to play around with (but anecdotally around here, it seems people run E's at higher pressures than C's).

Did I miss a relevant post or something??? :ybrick:

[FWIW, as far as my limited experience goes, the dealer-inflated pressure of 46 felt a bit stiff, and it was pretty clear that the outer 3/4-inch of tread wasn't on the ground. At 42 it felt a bit better, but still some tread not touching (I read and re-read JB's insistence that this doesn't matter, re: chalk tests). At 40 they now feel just a very small touch wallowy with all tread on the ground (probably slightly too much contact), but I only have 10 miles at this pressure and no highway miles, so I'll reserve judgment until then.]

I'll be happy to explain but need to get to a computer instead of phone.

 

[jamoc]

Beautiful!

Congrats! And you have a sunroof...

 

[FlightMedic303]

Congrats man, lets get'r dirty up in the mountains!

 

[1engineer]

Again [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], thanks for the link, your help is appreciated. I get that LT tires need more pressure, but I don't get why different categories of LT tires seem to need the same pressure, per JB's insistence in that thread.

I re-read the thread now that I have something 'concrete' in my garage, and must admit I'm a bit perplexed regarding the basic premise that the recommended pressure for a "C" rated tire should be the exact same as that for an "E" rated tire, simply because they are both "LT" tires. It seems that the physics dictating that an LT tire should have a different pressure than a P tire should similarly dictate that different 'levels' of LT tires should have different pressures given identical loading. I get that the TRA gives no specific guidance that I could find (other than merely extending the data to higher loading weights), it just seems to fly in the face of what seems intuitively obvious to me, and hopefully someone can steer me right here.

Not that DiscountTireDirect is assumed to be correct or anything, but they did give a recommended pressure of 40psi for C-rated AT3's in a 2016 4Runner. Wondering where DTD got this from; I looked for an inflation/load table from Cooper, but the Toyo document (that references TRA tables) is all that I could find.

Out of curiosity I called DTD.com and inquired as to the different recommended pressures for Cooper Discoverer AT3s in the three different load ratings (265/70-17, for the 4Runner), and here's what their computer popped out:

• P=31psi
• C1=40psi
• E1=43psi

Nowhere in the Toyo PDF/TRA tables can I see how this data point can be interpolated for C, nor can I see how their E1 number can be that far below 50psi, unless they are assuming a sub-maximal load (which would certainly be reasonable, *most* of the time). Seems like 'legal' inflation pressures reference only maximum load, so not sure how they'd settle on a specific number (weight) less than that maximum.

Anyway, my gut feel is that DTD's numbers are probably pretty close to reality for most daily uses, not ignoring the fact that I don't have E-rated tires to play around with (but anecdotally around here, it seems people run E's at higher pressures than C's).

Did I miss a relevant post or something??? :ybrick:

[FWIW, as far as my limited experience goes, the dealer-inflated pressure of 46 felt a bit stiff, and it was pretty clear that the outer 3/4-inch of tread wasn't on the ground. At 42 it felt a bit better, but still some tread not touching (I read and re-read JB's insistence that this doesn't matter, re: chalk tests). At 40 they now feel just a very small touch wallowy with all tread on the ground (probably slightly too much contact), but I only have 10 miles at this pressure and no highway miles, so I'll reserve judgment until then.]

Alright. First, read these three points:

- LTs carry less load (size and psi being equal) than Ps because they create more heat and the rubber, due to thickness and composition, is more prone to long term cracking when flexed.

- Increasing the inflation pressure increases the maximum load carrying capacity up to a maximum value. This maximum could be called the "Rating Point", but generally this is referred to as separate entities - the "Rated Load" and the "Rated Inflation Pressure"

- Increasing the physical size of the tire increases the maximum load carrying capacity. One way to look at this is "Air Chamber Volume".

Next, read this link Barry's Tire Tech which is directly from a tire design engineer.

Now, this is your question:
"It seems that the physics dictating that an LT tire should have a different pressure than a P tire should similarly dictate that different 'levels' of LT tires should have different pressures given identical loading. I get that the TRA gives no specific guidance that I could find (other than merely extending the data to higher loading weights), it just seems to fly in the face of what seems intuitively obvious to me, and hopefully someone can steer me right here."

Intuition is never a substitute for proper design lol. If I had a nickel for everything I have designed over the years that proved my "intuition" was wrong I would have a.... well I would have a lot of nickels! Let me see if I can explain this -

Why do we even run a pressure like 32 psi in a regular P rated tire anyway? I have done the calculations many times and in order to provide support for the vehicle's weight you really only need a few psi in each tire! And of course in a wider tire you should need even less because of the increased ground contact patch! Notice width is never mentioned in load tables lol.

The answer is fairly simple: Tires from an engineering standpoint are simply flexible pressure vessels. Put compressed air in and they expand and that pressure is exerted in all directions. Notice I said all directions, not just towards the tread portion of the tire. The sidewall of a tire is just as important as the tread portion of the tire and when you inflate a tire, that pressure is trying to expand the sidewalls too. Tires are made out of a flexible material and they do expand. Now that the basics are covered the answer is fairly obvious: The difference between a "P" and a "C" and an "E" tire design is simply the carcass thickness. An "E" has a lot thicker carcass and is much heavier than a "P." The "C" is thicker than a "P" but not as thick as an "E." The pressures required in tires in order for them to reach their rated load ratings are pressures that will keep the tires from having too much sidewall flex. Too much sidewall flex will generate heat and heat is what will kill a tire, in two ways: Heat will cause the air pressure to rise (increase of 14 degrees F will cause the tire pressure to increase by one psi) and too much sidewall flex will cause friction and heat and degradation of the tire material to the point of failure. So in this case, while the "E" carcass is thicker than the "C" carcass, the same pressure is required to prevent sidewall flexing up to a given load.

Remember back at the beginning saying that 32 psi seemed to be standard pressure for most passenger vehicles? Even though they are different weights and have different loads? That's because 32 psi (approximately two atmospheres) is required to properly inflate a typical "P" tire to it's design dimensions. It's definitely not load because load only inflation would be maybe 10 psi. I hope this helps.

 

[Durtyox]

Very very nice~
I like that...TRD Trail

 

[b407driver]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that thoroughly [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]. Now, I got all that, and it makes sense, but here's where you lose me (and where I was previously lost):

So in this case, while the "E" carcass is thicker than the "C" carcass, the same pressure is required to prevent sidewall flexing up to a given load.

I guess I missed the premise that dictates the jump to 'E>C, therefore C=E'.

Perhaps the answer is simply that since the TRA guidelines are so general that they even fail to recognize the importance of tread width, they thus certainly wouldn't address the myriad tire construction differences within the LT category as a whole. Clearly DTD is getting data from somewhere in order to interpolate C-rated tire pressures as being less than E-rated tires, and again, this makes perfect sense to me (not that it matters). The question is what data are they using, and why does their recommendation violate the basic premise of the original thread that all LT tires of the same size should be inflated to the same pressure, all else being equal other than the tires' construction (e.g. E vs. C, etc.)?

 

[b407driver]

Finally got my StatupImage loaded, kinda fun to be able to personalize your vehicle:

 

[Warpkor]

had me fooled

That's a beautiful truck. I would have walked around it thinking it was a T-Pro from the factory and that you just removed the badges. What a great way to build the 4runner.