FJ Engine Bay Body Rips

[Thai]

UPDATE

Here are some updates on the this problem...you can read the last few pages of the linked thread, but here is a quick summary:

- Here are some pics of the updated fender aprons: http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips-274.html

scroll down to see the pics

- Here is a pic of the "old" designed apron:

- Here is a pic of the new boxed apron (3-layers):

- "Okay, I confirmed this today using a drinking straw. I tested my 2007 model, a late 2008 model, and a brand new 2009 model. On the 2007 and 2008 models, the straw could be inserted through holes/bolt holes along the inner fender until it touched the outer fender skin. Definitely not internally boxed.

On the 2009 model the straw could only be inserted about 2 inches before hitting. The only place the straw did not hit something was near the firewall.

Overall, I would conclude that this 2009 model definely incorporated the new boxed construction, while the late model 2008 did not."

- "Some time after 5/08 the new design was implemented. My FJ's production date is 7/08 and incorporates the new design."

- Unfortunately, Toyota is clamping down on fixing every FJ with this problem! Toyota will likely blame aftermarket mods as a reason for this!

"I talked with the service manager Thursday at Rodland Toyota in Everett, WA. He's been talking to Toyota regarding my bulge. He's gotten two stories so far, both of which are consistent -- and consistent, sadly, with the idea that very few claims will get handled under warranty from here on out:

(1) Toyota will evaluate inner fender apron bulges/rips on a case-by-case basis and fix only under specific conditions (unspecified to me); and

(2) A TSB is coming out on which will again indicate repair work under specific conditions (again unspecified to me).

I've drawn no firm conclusions yet and I'll be continuing to press this through my dealer until a solid story line and more complete details emerge. I am not blindly optimistic, however."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thus, many 2008 FJs do NOT have this new design...thus, anyone who is in the market NEEDS to check out the fender BEFORE putting money down!

 

[Thai]

Unfortunately, this new 3rd generation boxed fender design is NOT definitive in fixing the fender problem. There is at least 1 guy on the FJ Forum (homedad) who has torn the new design (http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...ce/69630-proof-new-inner-fender-design-4.html). So, back to square one....

 

[Thai]

Wow, look at this!!

 

[Thai]

Here is a sample of Toyota denying a FJ owner of the fix:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2697291700050172860fGDSmU

 

[Thai]

Here is a pissed off FJ owner:

 

[Thai]

Yup, 2008 FJs are DEFINITELY at risk for this:

CONSUMER COMPLAINT: ODI Case Number: 10252695

Component: STRUCTURE

Details: HAD VEHICLE LIFTED BY TOYOTA AND PAID TOYOTA FOR THIS MODIFICATION. APPROX 10 MONTH LATER I SHOWING SIGN OF FENDERS BULGING AND TEARING. THEY HAD ME SIGN A WAVIER THAT WARRANTY MAY NOT COVER MODIFICATIONS AFTER ACCEPTING VEHICLE. YET THERE HAVING VEHICLES LIFTED AND PUT ON THERE LOT TO SELL. I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE THIS PROBLEM SOME LIFTED SOME NOT. ALSO TOYOTA HAVE A UPGRADED THE PARTS TO FIX PROBLEM .WHICH I HAVE PICTURES OF. THE PROBLEM IS FRAME FLEXES TO MUCH AND RIPS IN WRINKLE ZONES ON VEHICLE FOR FRONTAL CRASHES. I USES VEHICLE FOR TRAIL RIDING AND HUNTING . AND I ALSO OWN 2 OTHER 4X4 FORD, JEEP AND HAVE NO BODY TEARING ON THEM. *TR

Occurrences: 1 Injuries: 0
Fail Date: 12/19/2008 Deaths: 0
Date added to datbase: 12/23/2008

[FILE] your own complaint on this model car.



Yes, include on Custom Report CONSUMER COMPLAINT: ODI Case Number: 10248777

Component: STRUCTURE:BODY

Details: 2008 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER IS EXPERIENCING INNER FENDER BULGING. THIS STARTED OCCURRING SHORTLY AFTER BUYING THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE CURRENTLY HAS 4800 MILES. THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED AND IN MOST CASES DOES NOT STOP UNTIL THE INNER FENDER IS CRACKED ALL THE WAY THROUGH. OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS SOME SORT OF DESIGN FLAW. *TR

Occurrences: 1 Injuries: 0
Fail Date: 11/11/2008 Deaths: 0
Date added to datbase: 11/14/2008

[FILE] your own complaint on this model car.



Yes, include on Custom Report CONSUMER COMPLAINT: ODI Case Number: 10244341

Component: STRUCTURE:BODY

Details: 2008 FJ CRUISER HAS TRAVELED APPROXIMATELY 150 MILES OFF ROAD ON ESTABLISHED TRAILS AND 15000 MILES ON PAVED ROADS. THERE ARE TEARS IN THE INNER FENDER APRONS IN THE CRUMPLE ZONE AND THE NOSE OF THE BODY APPEARS TO BE SAGGING DOWN. THE PASSENGER SIDE DOOR IS IMPINGED AND PAINT IS CHIPPING OFF WHEN IT IS OPENED. THE RIPS FORMED SPONTANEOUSLY, THERE HAS BEEN NO COLLISION OR IMPACT ON THE VEHICLE. THE TEARS ARE THROUGH METAL RUNNING FROM THE TOP OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE TO ABOUT A HALF INCH BEFORE THE BOTTOM OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE, THE TEAR IS ABOUT 6 INCHES FROM THE BACK OF THE ENGINE BAY. *TR

Occurrences: 1 Injuries: 0
Fail Date: 09/23/2008 Deaths: 0
Date added to datbase: 10/3/2008

[FILE] your own complaint on this model car.



Yes, include on Custom Report CONSUMER COMPLAINT: ODI Case Number: 10243311

Component: STRUCTURE:BODY

Details: I OWN A 2008 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER AND HAVE DRIVEN BOTH ON AND OFF ROAD SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2008. I HAVE NOTICED A POPPING SOUND WHEN OPENING THE PASSENGER SIDE DOOR, WHEN THE DEALERSHIP WENT TO LOOK AT WHY THIS WAS HAPPENING THEY DISCOVERED THAT THE INNER FENDER APRON IN THE ENGINE BAY WAS BUCKLED AND TORN IN THE CRUMPLE ZONE EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NEVER STRUCK ANYTHING WITH MY VEHICLE, NOT THE GROUND, NOT ANOTHER CAR, NOTHING. THE RIPS RUN FROM THE TOP OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE TO APPROXIMATELY ONE HALF INCH FROM THE BOTTOM, THE TOP OF THE TEAR IS FOLDING FORWARD SO THAT THE TEAR HAS RESULTED IN AN OPENING IN THE SHAPE OF A V, I ASSUME THIS SHIFT IS WHAT IS CAUSING THE DOOR IMPINGEMENT AGAINST THE QUARTERPANEL. *TR

Occurrences: 1 Injuries: 0
Fail Date: 09/23/2008 Deaths: 0
Date added to datbase: 9/24/2008

 

[Thai]

Make : TOYOTA Model : FJ CRUISER Year : 2008
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10252695 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: December 19, 2008
VIN : JTEBU11F58K...
Component: STRUCTURE
Summary:
HAD VEHICLE LIFTED BY TOYOTA AND PAID TOYOTA FOR THIS MODIFICATION. APPROX 10 MONTH LATER I SHOWING SIGN OF FENDERS BULGING AND TEARING. THEY HAD ME SIGN A WAVIER THAT WARRANTY MAY NOT COVER MODIFICATIONS AFTER ACCEPTING VEHICLE. YET THERE HAVING VEHICLES LIFTED AND PUT ON THERE LOT TO SELL. I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE THIS PROBLEM SOME LIFTED SOME NOT. ALSO TOYOTA HAVE A UPGRADED THE PARTS TO FIX PROBLEM .WHICH I HAVE PICTURES OF. THE PROBLEM IS FRAME FLEXES TO MUCH AND RIPS IN WRINKLE ZONES ON VEHICLE FOR FRONTAL CRASHES. I USES VEHICLE FOR TRAIL RIDING AND HUNTING . AND I ALSO OWN 2 OTHER 4X4 FORD, JEEP AND HAVE NO BODY TEARING ON THEM. *TR

Make : TOYOTA Model : FJ CRUISER Year : 2008
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10248777 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: November 11, 2008
VIN : JTEBU11F88K...
Component: STRUCTURE:BODY
Summary:
2008 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER IS EXPERIENCING INNER FENDER BULGING. THIS STARTED OCCURRING SHORTLY AFTER BUYING THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE CURRENTLY HAS 4800 MILES. THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED AND IN MOST CASES DOES NOT STOP UNTIL THE INNER FENDER IS CRACKED ALL THE WAY THROUGH. OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS SOME SORT OF DESIGN FLAW. *TR

Make : TOYOTA Model : FJ CRUISER Year : 2008
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10244341 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: September 23, 2008
VIN : JTEBU11F18K...
Component: STRUCTURE:BODY
Summary:
2008 FJ CRUISER HAS TRAVELED APPROXIMATELY 150 MILES OFF ROAD ON ESTABLISHED TRAILS AND 15000 MILES ON PAVED ROADS. THERE ARE TEARS IN THE INNER FENDER APRONS IN THE CRUMPLE ZONE AND THE NOSE OF THE BODY APPEARS TO BE SAGGING DOWN. THE PASSENGER SIDE DOOR IS IMPINGED AND PAINT IS CHIPPING OFF WHEN IT IS OPENED. THE RIPS FORMED SPONTANEOUSLY, THERE HAS BEEN NO COLLISION OR IMPACT ON THE VEHICLE. THE TEARS ARE THROUGH METAL RUNNING FROM THE TOP OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE TO ABOUT A HALF INCH BEFORE THE BOTTOM OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE, THE TEAR IS ABOUT 6 INCHES FROM THE BACK OF THE ENGINE BAY. *TR


Make : TOYOTA Model : FJ CRUISER Year : 2008
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION
Crash : No Fire : No Number of Injuries: 0
ODI ID Number : 10243311 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: September 23, 2008
VIN : Not Available
Component: STRUCTURE:BODY
Summary:
I OWN A 2008 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER AND HAVE DRIVEN BOTH ON AND OFF ROAD SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2008. I HAVE NOTICED A POPPING SOUND WHEN OPENING THE PASSENGER SIDE DOOR, WHEN THE DEALERSHIP WENT TO LOOK AT WHY THIS WAS HAPPENING THEY DISCOVERED THAT THE INNER FENDER APRON IN THE ENGINE BAY WAS BUCKLED AND TORN IN THE CRUMPLE ZONE EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NEVER STRUCK ANYTHING WITH MY VEHICLE, NOT THE GROUND, NOT ANOTHER CAR, NOTHING. THE RIPS RUN FROM THE TOP OF THE CRUMPLE ZONE TO APPROXIMATELY ONE HALF INCH FROM THE BOTTOM, THE TOP OF THE TEAR IS FOLDING FORWARD SO THAT THE TEAR HAS RESULTED IN AN OPENING IN THE SHAPE OF A V, I ASSUME THIS SHIFT IS WHAT IS CAUSING THE DOOR IMPINGEMENT AGAINST THE QUARTERPANEL. *TR

 

[Thai]

Here is a picture of an '08 Sandstorm being affected:

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Yeah,this is pretty sad and a black eye for Toyota.

 

[Thai]

Here is what the bulge can do from the outside:

 

[SupraTuRD]

Update: 51k on the odo... still nothing. (no, I'm not complaining) =)

 

[Thai]

Well, it seems like one of the FJ owners (EWUJoe) have won a court case against Toyota for this rip: http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips-304.html

 

[Thai]

More and more people are theorizing that the fender bulge is due to a weak frame (flexing too much). This is a shortened frame of the 4runner/GX. It could be that the shortened frame is weaker than the full frame?? I would have guessed the opposite.

 

[pickerdd]

Have any 4th gen 4Runner experienced this issue?

 

[Thai]

Have any 4th gen 4Runner experienced this issue?

I have heard one case...but this was like 3rd hand information. Maybe the 4runner's longer frame helps???

 

[pickerdd]

Thai,

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Thai]

Here is some more info on the frame flexing forward of the A-pillar: http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/general-discussion/90402-frame-stiffening-7.html

 

[eskimochaos]

Here is some more info on the frame flexing forward of the A-pillar: http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/general-discussion/90402-frame-stiffening-7.html

I think its a combo of the body mounting positions and high impact off road hits such has drops/jumps. Not all people who off road their FJ have this problem even those that seriously abuse them.

The Prado has no reported cases of this as I troll pradopoint all the time and neither does the 4runner have any substantiated issues either here or toyota120.com even when they have full bullbars/winches up front.

It is agreed on all 120 forums that after the A-pillar, the frame essentially becomes tuning forks to comply with good old Uncle Sam.

 

[Thai]

Actually, i believe that it is widely accepted that the Prado (SWB version?) does indeed have this problem...at least that is what the folks on FJ forums are saying.

In addition, if you look at the poll of the original thread (on the FJ Forum), then you will see that a significant percentage of fender tears occur on STOCK vehicles without modifications. And when you read the whole thread (a very long thread), there are more than a few people who don't take their FJ off-road all that much that suffers from this.

A lot of people (including me) believes that this problem will eventually show up on most (if not all) FJs with age and/or abuse. It is a design problem, not a batch problem.

Is the FJ and SWB Prado frame weaker than 4runner/GX frame??

 

[eskimochaos]

Actually, i believe that it is widely accepted that the Prado (SWB version?) does indeed have this problem...at least that is what the folks on FJ forums are saying.

In addition, if you look at the poll of the original thread (on the FJ Forum), then you will see that a significant percentage of fender tears occur on STOCK vehicles without modifications. And when you read the whole thread (a very long thread), there are more than a few people who don't take their FJ off-road all that much that suffers from this.

A lot of people (including me) believes that this problem will eventually show up on most (if not all) FJs with age and/or abuse. It is a design problem, not a batch problem.

Is the FJ and SWB Prado frame weaker than 4runner/GX frame??

Your right, I skimmed through about 30 pages on that thread and it seems that Prado's had the issue at one point or another.

What we know is.

1. Its a design flaw that apparently has not been remedied by new fender flare designs.

2. Most think it originates at the frame.

Im a Mech E (going to be a junior) so my knowledge is minimal at this point but you and I assume that the shorter frame would be more stout. All shear and bending moments are less because the perpendicular distances to the outside forces are less.

Unless there is some substantial difference between these frames then I believe it is a combo of the frame/body mounting on FJ's in particular that make them more prone to the issue. Is the frame shorter only on the side rails or is something moved up front?? The FJ hood looks awfully short even compared to a 4R..did they move critical mounts back on the FJ?

Who knows....is this why Toyota redesigned the front fender flares in 06 on the 4Runner??? Adding projector headlights, different grill and rounded snap on plastic wheel wells shouldnt require a redesign of the metallic fender flare....should it?? Did Toyota "fix" an undocumented problem on the 4R and play it off as a redesign???

I just wish Toyota would release more technical specs on the frames,components etc of these vehicles.

My $.02.