ObeseFieldMouse
New member
I was wondering if the 4th gen 4runners are flexible fuel vehicles. Also, so any of ya'll run any ethanol in your tank and what kind of problems if any do you have? Is it cheaper?
just curious
just curious
Flexible fuel
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Kailua250
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Unfortunately for now no Toyota sold in the US can use E85.ObeseFieldMouse said:
However, here in Hawaii it was mandated that all gasoline comprise 10% ethanol (E10) and can be found in many other states. This doesn't cause any problems for most modern engines and can be run in North American vehicles produced after 1980 with no modification. Ethanol is bad for ruber, aluminum, and other components that now are not exposed to the fuel in these engines.
E85 is generaly about 35% cheaper than Unleaded gasoline.
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tomlowery
New member
almost all gasonline now actually contains at least a small percentage of ethanol (im actually a large investor in a Biodiesel company). there was an additive that was alwyas mixed in gasoline, Methyl tert-Butyl Ether (MTBE) which was used to reduce certain emissions but recently it has been shown to actually be harmful so ethanol is its replacement. that is also one of the main reasons for the sharp gas price increases recently. ethanol for the most part though will almost never be a stand alone fuel. its just not viable with the amount of vehicles on the road that cannot run ethanol. oil companies see ethanol as more of a additive and not as a direct threat to their sales. if ethanol was a threat to them theyd have no problem slinging a few hundred million at some of these companies and buying them out, which i have yet to see (my company is working with an ethanol company). but as the other guys said it is a less efficient fuel source with todays engines and with the production costs of ethanol your savings would be very little if any(after this change in law for gasonline additives the demand far outweighs the supply and will continue to do so for years to come).
Re: Re: Re: Flexible fuel
I've also heard that E85 is energy negative - it takes more energy to produce E85 than you get out of it when you burn it!
Unfortunately, E85 sounds like a political solution rather than a real way to decrease energy imports. It's great that it's made out of corn or soybeans, of which the U.S. has plenty. It just doesn't seem very practical.
Nonetheless, Toyota did announce a few weeks ago that they will work on supporting E85 in the future. I think that's partly due to peer pressure and trying to "go with the flow", as U.S.-based automakers are pushing E85.
I agree with all of that post!biglatka said:
I've also heard that E85 is energy negative - it takes more energy to produce E85 than you get out of it when you burn it!
Unfortunately, E85 sounds like a political solution rather than a real way to decrease energy imports. It's great that it's made out of corn or soybeans, of which the U.S. has plenty. It just doesn't seem very practical.
Nonetheless, Toyota did announce a few weeks ago that they will work on supporting E85 in the future. I think that's partly due to peer pressure and trying to "go with the flow", as U.S.-based automakers are pushing E85.
boston_kevin
New member
I think Hybrids have more of a future than E85... Can you picture your local gas station digging up one of their tanks to install an E85 tank where they will make less money? Currently only Ford and GM are attempting to push the E85 stuff... No other manufacturer has E85 (or flex fuel) capabilities.
IIIBradIII
New member
I don't understand all of the pessimism. Brazil uses their plentiful sugarcane to create ethanol and as of this year they will no longer import oil!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/29/eveningnews/main1454613.shtml
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-03-28-brazil-ethanol-cover_x.htm?POE=TECISVA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/29/eveningnews/main1454613.shtml
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-03-28-brazil-ethanol-cover_x.htm?POE=TECISVA
IIIBradIII said:
True, but ethanol isn't free of similar problems to oil. At least one study has shown that production and use of corn-based ethanol produces 40 percent more CO2 than an equivalent amount of gasoline. Don't forget what happens in the fermentation process - sugar is consumed by yeast which produces alcohol and CO2. One molecule of CO2 is produced for every molecule of ethanol.
C6H12O6 → 2 CH3CH2OH + 2 CO2
IIIBradIII
New member
No one is saying anything is problem free, but if Brazil can do it I sure think we could pull it off as well!lockerc18 said:
charlier180
New member
Re: Re: Flexible fuel
I do believe the cost savings will vary GREATLY from place to place. The other night on the news they had a segment on a local station that started selling E85 fuel. The special introductory price was $1.85/gallon. The regular price was said to be about 10 cents per gallon less than gasoline. Maybe someday, E85 will be considerably cheaper than gas. Unfortunately, at the present time the 10 cent/gallon savings, along with the decreased mileage, increased cost of the E85 vehicle and the lack of widespread availability make E85 less than attractive for some people.
Kailua250 said:
I do believe the cost savings will vary GREATLY from place to place. The other night on the news they had a segment on a local station that started selling E85 fuel. The special introductory price was $1.85/gallon. The regular price was said to be about 10 cents per gallon less than gasoline. Maybe someday, E85 will be considerably cheaper than gas. Unfortunately, at the present time the 10 cent/gallon savings, along with the decreased mileage, increased cost of the E85 vehicle and the lack of widespread availability make E85 less than attractive for some people.
Brazil has a lot fewer cars than we; fewer large SUV's, and more importantly, they use sugar cane for their ethanol production. We're using corn, soy, and planned use of cellulose, all of which are a more energy intensive process and of lesser alcohol yield. All things are not equal.IIIBradIII said:
IIIBradIII
New member
We're also a more advanced country in general with more resources at our disposal. We'll figure it out eventually - no need to be so pessimistic about our future.biglatka said:
ObeseFieldMouse
New member
i think toyota should send us a couple bagillion of them nice little 3.0 liter 4cyl turbo diesels to the USA, then id be perfectly happy converting mine to run on french fry oil. I have plenty of 55 gal drums to let it settle in, so lets get the backyard factory going!!!
Im just a goofy teenager, but why dont oil companies start takin fry oil and crap like that, and sell that too? the ethanol and antifreezing stuff you put in a gal of vege diesel is less than $1 per gallon, isnt it? of course then again, im just a teenager...what do i know??
Im just a goofy teenager, but why dont oil companies start takin fry oil and crap like that, and sell that too? the ethanol and antifreezing stuff you put in a gal of vege diesel is less than $1 per gallon, isnt it? of course then again, im just a teenager...what do i know??
biglatka said:
We have lots and lots more cars than Brazil
One thing that no one realizes about "Corn based ethanol" is that we can not grow enough corn to produce enough ethanol to make a real dent in our consumption of oil.
It takes 1 bushel of corn to make 2.5 gallons of ethanol.
Average production per acre, between 110 and 140 bushel, we'll use 125.
Total production per acre is 312.5 gallons of ethanol.
We consume 9.35 million BARRELS of oil a day, refined equates to about 60 Gallons of gasoline per barrel, total per day consumption = 561 million, total for the year 204 billion gallons (holly crap).
Total acres of corn to meet demand, about 655 million.
Currently in the United States we have 434.16 million acres in "irrigated" production, doesn't include dry land production which is another 400 million (can't grow corn). That would mean every farmer in the USA would have to grow corn and nothing else, no vegetables to feed us, and no grains to feed livestock. And we would still be short 200 million acres.
We might have fuel but we would all go hungry!!!
Ethanol is a good additive but the E85 is a joke, just smoke and mirrors.
